What do you wish you had known about work when you were 16-18 years old?

[InThePresenceOfWeevil]

I'm supporting a volunteering session through my workplace for disadvantaged young people, to help them in their future working careers.

As part of one of the sessions, I will be interviewed by the host...and this will be one of the questions.

So it got me thinking what would your reflections be.

I think mine is that you don't need to have a defined career plan...it's ok to not know what your next move is even when you're in your 40s and 50s...I've often changed roles/been promoted based on one element of the job that I've particularly interested in and/or good at.

What do YOU wish you'd known about work at that age?

I realise no one could have predicted the future back then but I wish I knew more about salaries of different careers.

I wasn't very academic but thought that as long you worked hard in literally any job you would get by in life. In the 90's my older sister had worked part time in a shop while her partner had a manual job, they bought a small house in their early 20's. I was pretty disillusioned by this and while I never had expectations of a luxurious lifestyle I didn't realise that a low paying job now, even full time would mean it would be such a struggle just to afford the basics. I don't think my parents realised this either and they never went with me or encouraged me to attend any job fairs or look into anything different than just getting literally any job.

I did choose a career and trained for it but it turned out to be low paying one and one where it is hard to move up the chain. If I could start again I would research what was out there much earlier.

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@bobsholi

How difficult it is being an introvert in the working world. There are so few jobs where you can just get your head down and do it, without having to work alongside others. Or even worse, the general public! I wish I'd had more support as a teenager to understand the jobs that would be best suited for me mentally and emotionally.

Yep totally. And how the skill of being able to fake it until you make it is how lots of people succeed.

If I had my time again I would choose a more vocational degree that led to a defined profession and career path.

Yes nitgel and bobsholi. I don’t think I realised how stressful that had been all these years until the pandemic and the absolute bliss of the home office

Learning ‘how to work’. Think proactively. Be professional: timeliness, communication, asking if you don’t understand etc etc…
Be smart- if you work hard doing the boring things will there be a chance to do something more interesting? Don’t skive- you still have to do the boring things, every successful person does at every level.

That people believe what you tell them about yourself.

(You'll soon realise that it's so much easier for everyone to do this than to waste energy challenging bullshitters - work is about getting work done, not about things being 'right').

On the one hand that's a bullshitter's charter - up to a point, people will react to straight out lies that don't match performance. What they won't challenge is someone doing something ordinary, then bigging it up as amazing.

On the other it means they will take your self-deprecation at face value. If you say you are weak at things and lack confidence they won't ask you to do them, you won't learn or get promoted. Your colleagues and bosses are not your guardian angels. (Occasionally you'll find a boss who is).

So if you do lack confidence or feel you know very little, learn to put a positive spin on it. 'I'm always keen to learn / willing to have a go. Yes, I'd like to have a go at that'.

That the phrase 'not my circus, not my monkeys' has a lot of value in the workplace. Don't waste time getting embroiled in other people's nonsense and petty politics. Get your work done first and above all. Be polite, sympathetic in a general, breezy way and aim to get on with everyone. That doesn't mean you need to do other people's running for them, or identify yourself with the petty disputes of lazy troublemakers.

Related, if someone is causing problems, not doing their work, difficult to work with, allow them the freedom to reveal this to others themselves. Others will notice, just as you have (usually, maybe not as fast). You do not have a duty to point out or highlight their shortcomings. In fact, if you do, it will reflect badly on you. 'The problem' will appear to be a dispute between the two of you, rather than their poor performance.

A good career can outlive a teen relationship....

Turned down a brilliant job opportunity with a placement for a hnc because I didn't want to commit to the job at 18 because I was so loved up and wanted the world to be our oyster.

Overall I don't regret it now but it took a long time once I was mature enough to get over the missed education and career i had skipped for a guy who turned in my alcoholic ex husband at 22 🤦🏼‍♀️

That there are bullies in pretty much every workplace, know the strategies for coping with these.

• Show friendly kindness and respect to everyone. That means the cleaner, the doorman, the people serving you lunch.

But it also means your manager - might sound weird, but having worked in toxic workplaces where first line managers were looked on with utter disdain and spoken to like shit by the people they managed purely because those people thought that individual was responsible to decisions made wayyyy further up the chain... just, respect the fact that everyone is there to do a job that pays their bills, its not personal. In purely selfish terms, you never know who you'll come across again in your life so it pays off.

• Always be keen to try new things and dont be afraid of flagging if you dont know something.

• Dont say 'cant do that, i dont know how to do it' say 'not learnt that yet, can i help xxx do it this time so i can watch?'

• Dont be workshy. Dont leave things for others to do that you should be doing, you will get found out no matter how well you think you've covered it up and that reputation will follow you around.

• Chat to everyone you meet about jobs and how they got into it, there's so many different paths and you might discover something you like the sound of and you already have found someone who might be able to give you advice.

• Apply for the things you think you are underqualified for. That doesnt mean apply for a surgeon job when you dont have a medical degree, but it does mean dont be put off applying for an admin role that asks for experience in mental health if you already have admin experience. It took me way too long to understand that the job requirements listed are for a perfect candidate, but when you get down to interview if you can sell your experience well as being transferrable, and you come across as someone who would work hard and be pleasant to work with, you have more chance of them picking you than someone who has all the experience listed but hasnt interviewed well.

• Ask other people for interview help, google common questions and get them to ask you so they can hear you answer and give feedback, stick to a framework on answers like STAR (again found by googling) but definitely get people to listen and help if you can!

That good manners go a long way. Old-fashioned mum advice but so, so important.

A huge amount of what carries people through their working life and determines where they end up is their social skills. Manners and social skills are a passport to travel, in work. Without them, you just won't be allowed in, above a certain level.

Not fancy etiquette, language or 'poshness' (unless they want to be an actor etc) just basic, classless manners and social skills.

Qualifications, experience etc are important but the expectation is that those are things attained by an all-round functioning human being. The functional human part goes without saying - but is actually as or more important than the specific knowledge.

So if someone has had a difficult background and may have missed out on some of the basic socialisation that a happy, stable family offers, I'd suggest they seek to address that by spending time with lots of different people and in different situations - volunteering, with friends and their families etc - and notice how people deal with each other, negotiate, discuss, support and encourage each other, have expectations of each other etc.

Then, as far as possible, behave like someone from a stable family, in the workplace. It's a version of faking until you make it.

These are great! I totally agree about the jobs that are out there are not the traditional job titles that your family or careers advisor will suggest.

A lot of work is drudgery, but if you can keep this down to 20%, you’re winning.

Leading onto… most people don’t understand percentages so if you can nail this, you’re considered a maths whizz in many circles.

Try to understand other peoples’ motivations, even if you don’t like them, or agree with them. Then decide how you will handle them.

Try to take the initiative, even if it’s just coming up with a few alternatives. Most people I take on seem to expect to run everything past their manager, when the manager simply doesn’t have the time.

Try to stay organised and focused so you can get the job done quicker. Work tends to fill the time available so you do have to put the effort into to improving things, which will make things better in the long term.

You may not enjoy and lots of people don't. My DB is well over 40 and still trying to find a job he loves and rejects most opportunities because he assumes everyone is out there loving their work. You don't necessarily need a calling.

That sex based discrimination is alive and kicking, in most companies women earn less, find it harder to progress and you need to think carefully about work life conflict and planning for mat leave and return.

That a lot of people go a long way on presentation/performance rather than competence.

Not to bother with an arts degree (or any degree) as it's a waste of time and has never been used.

That you are entitled to annual leave!
I worked weekends in a shop for about 2 years and had no idea. We had to ask for time off and didn't always get it. Never given a reason and never told we were actually entitled to annual leave.

Then I worked in a call centre and annual leave was never mentioned in our training. Genuinely no ide how much we were entitled to or actually that we were entitled at all. My training group were all uni students, we just worked the shifts they told us to and didn't get to question if the managers changed our shifts. We used to phone in sick if we needed to take a shift off. Managers never made it clear we had sick pay or annual leave, and we were permanent part time employees.

Think of your life as a jigsaw (but less rigid and more 4D). Your interests, your family life, your work, travel, notions of retirement, the money you need to support the things you want. You can fit those pieces together in different ways.

You do need to think about how much money is required to keep the whole thing afloat and how you're going to obtain and sustain that. That path might not be linear, in the way you might at first imagine.

So you can seek work in a subject area you love, or you can work at something else you're competent at, to make money, then do the thing you love as a hobby, or a sideline. Later, once you've attained some financial stability and some marketable skills, you might be able to switch things around and work in your specialism for an organisation that does the thing you love, or get involved as a volunteer or trustee, or re-train and go in at a junior level when you can afford to do that, maybe when your DC have flown the nest.

But, do think about how much money you'll need to support the bits of your jigsaw you care about. Working in a vocational field might not achieve that for you. So maybe give it a go for five years, if acting, art etc is your passion but be prepared to re-assess and change direction. (If you have that plan from the start, you won't feel a failure when you do it). Develop other skills along the way. Or, get a marketable skill first, build up your resources, then switch later.

Also, look at the different ways people can be involved in the sorts of things you enjoy. Charities, voluntary orgs and arts organisations have a lot of volunteers and trustees. Often those trustees play a huge and important role in running the thing but they don't suffer the low, vocational wages. So be a lawyer, accountant, marketing or HR specialist, then, after a while, you'll have money and free time to spend on doing what you love and might also be able to become influential in that field, in a less obvious way.

1. How payslips work I.e if your salary is £30k - you don’t get £30k.
2. It’s a marathon and not a sprint - your working life will be long and it’s important that you feel enough stretch but not so much that you are worn out.
3. Keeping your options open, starts with qualifications, then moves more to networking.
4. Pensions
5. There is a difference between studying something you love and working in a field you love e.g. I love philosophy but there are few paying roles where that is useful.
6. Things that impact your career but that pay off in different ways and that they are in control - e.g location (housing and opportunities), having freedom to move, caring responsibilities and just general life.
7. The package not just the salary - what do employers provide in terms of pension, maternity/paternity, sick cover, life insurance, health insurance etc.

Oh yes, something I didn't think about at school was how universal and transferable some jobs are and others aren't. e.g. If you're a teacher, doctor or nurse, you can move to any city and find a job. Even move countries. That's a huge freedom.

Whereas if you go into a smaller field where you have to move for jobs, or something area-specific, you won't have much choice about where you live.

@ColonelNobbyNobbs

Also maybe a better understanding of salaries - when I was 18 I hadn’t a clue what ‘£20k a year’ or ‘£50k a year’ meant or what the difference in salaries mean for buying houses etc

Definitely this. It’s important to get a job. But it’s also important to know about money too. It might motivate people or change their career path

I agree with the posters who have said understanding money. Knowing what a salary would equate to in terms of take home pay and what that might realistically cover in terms of housebuying potential, rent, bills, pensions etc.

My siblings and I all went into jobs that we did because that's what we loved, and while we've all had interesting experiences, none of us have done well financially and in our late 30s/40s are all retraining to find more stability.

My friend did a postgrad in a specific field which seemed very boring to me but later on she said one of the reasons was because jobs in that field tended to be very family friendly with good maternity packages. I can honestly say that had never occurred to me! She is nearly mortgage free whereas I only got my first mortgage a few years ago and can rarely take holidays or afford luxuries.

Perhaps understanding the financial value of those aspects of working life might have helped me make more sensible choices. Maybe not though!

I’ve not seen anyone mention this important truth yet:

You can be self employed.

You can literally go out there in the world and make a job for yourself.

Don't let them take advantage of you.
I was a dogsbody for my first boss, doing things that were not related to the job in any way. Because of my age I didn't challenge him or answer back. He made me take his daughter to her dentist appointment, buy his Christmas gifts, buy his cigarettes, make appointments for him etc.

I was a junior in a hair salon, so none of these were part of my role, as a pp said, he never let me take time off, or paid me holiday. He just wanted a skivvy that he was going to pay £60 per week for 48 hours work.

Years on I'm still bitter about it.

The work of work has rules, things like turning up on time, appropriate dress, attendance etc really do matter - your boss won’t accommodate you the way school does. Take pride in whatever you do, no matter how inconsequential you think it may be.

I was that disadvantaged 16 year old and those two things have stood me in good stead.

Oh yes and linked to the portability of some jobs, recognising that some professions have chartered status or similar, which means that if you work at a particular level, you have to be paid the appropriate salary for that level. These professions tend to be better paid than others, because there's an established career structure and pay scale and you benefit from decades, even centuries of advocacy, by members of the profession and by unions.

So training to be a chartered accountant, or surveyor, or teacher or HCP gives you a certainty about your value and employability at all stages of your career, that other types of work do not offer.

You're not guaranteed to get each job you apply for of course but if you stay within the profession you'll do relatively well, compared to other jobs you could do.