What's really going on with the Russian Ice Dancer, Kamila Valieva?

[SuperSange]

She apparently failed a drug test, sample taken on Dec 25th, and the results weren't reported until Tuesday. She's had several negative tests since, but why wait until now to report? Someone is up to something, but I can't find out what. I'd like to think they'd not be stupid enough to be doping (hence the ROC team as Russia were banned), so it's stinking of fish to me. Added to which, she's only 15, so are her coaches her guardians or something?

@fallfallfall how do they enhance flexibility with drugs?

Drugs that delay puberty also maintains that prepubescent flexibility.

I find skating and gymnastics both have this issue that in the women's events, it's generally smaller/lighter and less developed girls who have a more natural advantage to meet the scoring requirements. This seems to leave it more open to increased pressure and even abuse (though sadly not confined to just those sports). Raising the minimum age in Olympic/World events to 18 might help. I don't think there's any other events where 15 year olds can potentially be the best in the World, and that comes with problems.

@fallfallfall

As a mom (and a skate mom) her size and flexibility is obviously drug enhanced. I agree the age (and age of all sports) needs to be 18.

This is just nonsense. Her flexibility is the result of genes and hours of stretching daily, unless you think Marianela Nuñez and Svetland Zakharova are drugged to the eyeballs. No drug can enable you to put your foot around your ear.

@fallfallfall

As a mom (and a skate mom) her size and flexibility is obviously drug enhanced. I agree the age (and age of all sports) needs to be 18.

I don't think her flexibility is due to drug use (other than recovering faster from injury). Years ago I saw an article about young gymnasts in China and the tortuous training they went through. There were young children (some looked as young as 4 or 5) on the floor crying in pain while the coaches bent their legs and backs way past what they could do comfortably. I wouldn't be surprised if those extreme tactics are used on Russian athletes.

This article lays it all out pretty well

slate.com/culture/2022/02/kamila-valieva-coach-eteri-tutberidze-abuse-russia-doping.html

I find skating and gymnastics both have this issue that in the women's events, it's generally smaller/lighter and less developed girls who have a more natural advantage to meet the scoring requirements. This seems to leave it more open to increased pressure and even abuse (though sadly not confined to just those sports).

This is becoming less true for gymnastics, I agree the young age women gymnasts are supposed to be ready to compete has exacerbated the power dynamic coaches have over their athletes, and lead to abuse, as in Figure Skating. But looking at womens gymnastics at the Tokyo Olympics, all individual medal winners for All-Around, Vault, Uneven Bars, and Floor were over 18. In Balance Beam 2 of the 3 medalists were over 18. In the team event 2 of 4 Russians were over 18, all 4 USA were over 18, and 2 of 4 GB were over 18. Gymnastics still skews young, but it does seem to be transitioning into a more balanced sport age and longevity wise - I wonder if there are lessons that Figure Skating can learn from this?

Gymnasts are getting much stronger looking, it's fantastic. Think of the Downie sisters, simone biles or suni Lee who won this years Olympics all are much stronger & healthier looking compare to gymnasts of Romania or Russia

Even Russia are helping to foster the change in gymnastics. Angelina Melnikova was an absolute star last year, she is 21 and the best she has ever looked, showing her younger teammates that you can improve with age, rather than make it at 16 and it’s all downhill. And in 2018 and 2019 Aliya Mustafina represented Russia at international competition, not only was she mid-twenties at this point, but also a mother. But I shouldn’t derail this Skating thread to bang on about gymnastics. Just to say, while there are still alot of issues that need to be addressed in gymnastics, it does seem to be turning a corner for the better - and given similarities and natural comparison with Skating maybe there is things that can be taken to make a positive change here too.

Yes mustafina & melnikova were amazing & so much healthier looking than the like of khorkina from the 90s...as regards figure skating the other russian sherbakova looks much more frail than valieva, trusova the 3rd russian looks athletic & stronger

I think part of the issue is that all sports where you fling yourself into the air rely on a strength to weight ratio. Some coaches don’t bother looking at the strength part to get skills, but only consider the weight portion, making it as low as possible assuming this will result in the best outcome.

I could watch Shcherbakova skate all day. An excellent gold. Her musicality really set her apart from everyone else. For once, I agree with 1st, 2nd and 3rd placings.

Watching Valieva crumple has been heartbreaking.

I was moved to tears by Robin Cousin's commentary after she had skated.

He couldn't get his words out due to his sadness at the whole situation. And when he said he hoped she didn't know what was going to happen I just thought about how she is a 15 year old child who shouldn't be having to go through this situation :(

@ABitBesottedWithMyDog

I could watch Shcherbakova skate all day. An excellent gold. Her musicality really set her apart from everyone else. For once, I agree with 1st, 2nd and 3rd placings.

Watching Valieva crumple has been heartbreaking.

I am sad that two ROC skaters have won medals. They come from the same training stable as Valieva, and even if they have not been fed illegal drugs they have been subjected to the same methods and pressures of training that the trainer puts all her “girls” through, pressures that result in injury, anorexia and premature retirement from the sport because they can’t meet the unrealistic expectations put on a post adolescent female body.

With Olympic medals under her belt the trainer is going to be free to destroy other young lives. Valievas career is finished at 15. I hope she gets help .

I really agree with @viques comment. I am sad to see two of Tutberidze's skaters get gold and silver, not because they are Russian or who they are as individuals, but because their medals solidify and prolong Tutberidzes reign of terror, it shows her system is working. Her skaters score exceptionally well, Russia are happy she is bringing them medals, ISU seem to not care about the abuse of their top athletes, Tutberidze now has a cracking CV with champion after champion, and skating is popular in Russia so lots of girls enrolling to either be broken or the next star. This gives her absolutely 0 motivation to change.

I have to say seeing Valieva crumble under the pressure was very sad, and my heart really went out to her. As soon as it was decided she would skate there was no good outcome - I didn't want her to win (nor did anyone and her doing so would cast her as villain in the media), but I also didn't want to see her upset and disappointed. I think that it's wrong that she ended up in 4th overall and 5th highest free skate with that performance - this is more of an issue with how scoring works than anything else. But she fell 3 times I think, and had many more almost falls. In my eyes far from 5th best in the day.

My skater of the day was Sakamoto, I'm delighted she got a medal.

Watching it now - Robin Cousins has made the point that the Russian style of packing routines with high-scoring quads means they're just skating from one side of the rink to the other, building up to the next massive jump, instead of creating cohesive flowing choreography. He sounds genuinely upset about the whole thing.

Although, having said that, Valieva has real grace and elegance which is why it's so tragic that her gift's been tarnished by greedy adults who were supposed to have her best interests at heart.

This whole thing was tough to watch. The only shining light was Sakamoto Kaori winning a medal. Outside of that Kamila Valieva was only ever going to have a difficult time after her positive test. She was disappointed by her performance and was then greeted by Eteri Tutberidze saying "Why did you let it go? Explain it to me, why. Why did stop fighting? You let it go after that axel".

Alexandra Trusova in second place was beyond devastated saying that she hated the sport and never wanted to skate again and the gold medallist Anna Shcherbakova was just hanging around almost like she was waiting for someone to notice her.

Abusive coaching doesn't start and end with Eteri Tutberidze, but she's the most 'successful' at it. And winning a gold and silver with her clean skaters, allows Kamila to become a nice scapegoat while she carries on abusing more children in the pursuit of success. And no-one in the sport has the will to try to change anything so I guess I'll be tuning in to Italy 2026 to see Eteri's newest children trained in the same dangerous technique and nobody caring about them other than their ability to win medals.

Oh, this poor kid. The despair on her face as she waits to come off the ice, knowing what reception she's going back to.

Dreadful, just dreadful. Someone needs to hang their head in shame, and it's not her.

Surely this is child abuse?

@dollymuchymuchness

Surely this is child abuse?

Yep, but as long as the children you abuse win medals then you can still win a Best Coach award.

Trusova also shouted that everyone had a gold medal except her (because she wasn't part of the team event). That was the source of her outburst. Understandable because she skated magnificently, too.

Let's allow her her disappointment and turn the bloody cameras off.

Awful. Just awful to see that young girl fall.

@ABitBesottedWithMyDog

Trusova also shouted that everyone had a gold medal except her (because she wasn't part of the team event). That was the source of her outburst. Understandable because she skated magnificently, too.

Let's allow her her disappointment and turn the bloody cameras off.

I think she had been led to believe that if she landed all her quads it would cinch it for her as her technical score would be so high. However, her 5 quads failed to beat Shcherbakovas 2. If you watch the performance it does seem she was somewhat failed by her coach who gave her 0 choreography and 0 personality on the ice - compared to the engaging routine the other top contenders - of course she was going to lose precious marks there.