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Original poster

School appeal - house move

30 replies

Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 00:46

We moved back in November to a new area. We applied for a school place for my Y8 daughter and were rejected by all three catchment schools! I am currently driving a 40 mile round trip each day to keep her at her old school (different authority) and to get to work. She is exhausted bless her. The school offered is miles out of the way. It would be physically impossible to take her and a bus journey would be 3 buses and she would set off at 6:30am and not arrive home until 6pm. I would not be happy with this.

I put a formal complaint in with the council as initially the council were sat on our case as they believed school were not being fair. However we decided the best was forward is to reject and appeal. The appeal was lodged on the 10th of jan and given they have 40days to hear the appeal and I have heard nothing yet, I gather they are going for the full time.

So my quesion is, has any one been in my shoes and lost?? I am really not sure what we will do if this is the case. Absolutely no idea. I have been told by a friend who works in appeals that I need not to worry but I cant help it. I understand the argument of predjudice towards my daughter vs the school, but can they really say no when we are in catchment? Any advice is great :D

OP posts:
Somebodylikeyew · 10/02/2022 00:55

How far away is the school you’ve been given?

Duracellbunnywannabe · 10/02/2022 01:51

Is this an in year application?

Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 10:49

@Somebodylikeyew

How far away is the school you’ve been given?
The nearest school which has places which has been offered is 7.6miles. It would be 2 or 3 bus changes and would take between 1hr10 mins and 1hr30 depending on the time of day . Possibly longer as I would think Google maps doesn’t account for the walking to be a 12 year old Tiny thing.
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Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 10:50

@Duracellbunnywannabe

Is this an in year application?
Yes it’s an in year application
OP posts:
ArnoldBee · 10/02/2022 10:53

Yes we appealed and lost. The the fair access protocol kicked in and no other school could take her so the school was forced to take her. It was all rather odd!

Hoppinggreen · 10/02/2022 10:53

Ask for this to be moved to Education.
There are some very knowledgeable people on there who may be able to offer advice.

fourthplace · 10/02/2022 10:57

There are some experts on this stuff here and I hope one of them will be along soon......but from what you've said, I think to win an appeal you need to demonstrate why only that school can meet your child's needs, or that the LA has made a mistake. The factors you've cited won't hold any sway I'm afraid - if they did, everyone would move near a desirable school and get a place. Sorry. I know it's crap. You just have to stay on the waiting lists and keep hoping.

MaizeAmaze · 10/02/2022 11:01

Is there another school, technicaly further away, but with a more,straight forward journey? Ignore catchment, just look at bus routes.

fourthplace · 10/02/2022 11:01

To add, yes they can say no even if you're in catchment. Being in catchment is not a guaranteed place. The admissions policy will have a pecking order when the school is oversubscribed. It helps to look at things from a school's viewpoint....they have X number of places, an upper limit on numbers, and only a certain amount of space/number of classrooms and they have to plan and staff the school accordingly.

meditrina · 10/02/2022 11:03

If the nearest school is that far away, they shouid be providing transport, and 3xbuses needing a 6:30 am start is not on, so just a free bus pass won't be enough. It needs to be a taxi

That is an angle you also need to pursue.

Have you had any conversations with the LA about getting them to invoke the Fair Access Protocol to force a school that is a reasonable journey away to go over numbers?

@prh47bridge @admission

Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 11:07

From what I understood, we need to look at the argument that the school is worse off for accepting one more pupil than my daughter would be to attend the school offered.

From a bit of legal advice I have sought we have been told that a secondary pupil cannot be made or travel 75mins. Cannot be put at risk and a few other criteria she would meet. It would be changing a bus early morning at the bus station when no security staff are on duty. Surely that’s not safe ? Home school is not an option I’m afraid and we Cannot keep up the current school. I would happily send her to the school offered if it was on a direct bus route. Its not so much the journey time but for bus changes that worries me and the amount of walking very early between buses.

OP posts:
ShowOfHands · 10/02/2022 11:12

We lost an appeal but like a pp, triggered fair access protocol and dc was admitted anyway. It was tough because ostensibly, the school was on side but we live in an area where nobody has won an appeal for eons.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 10/02/2022 11:17

If the school allocate one outside of catchment/certain distance dont they have to provide transport?

InCahootswithOrwell · 10/02/2022 11:28

The LA have to provide transport if the school is not within a reasonable travelling distance. Which I think is about 3miles/1 hr for secondary. Catchment boundaries don’t come into it.

From what the OP has described the allocated school should easily meet the definition of not within reasonable travelling distance.

Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 11:42

@InCahootswithOrwell

The LA have to provide transport if the school is not within a reasonable travelling distance. Which I think is about 3miles/1 hr for secondary. Catchment boundaries don’t come into it.

From what the OP has described the allocated school should easily meet the definition of not within reasonable travelling distance.

It’s a long story and I don’t think I have the energy to explain after a house move and this battle . But our case has been dealt with by the head of education for this borough due to a complaint that we made with the regards to the handling of our case (it’s been appalling). This was upheld and we were advised to appeal. The admissions officers and head of eduction have said them selves that the school offered us not suitable. But they have had nothing else to offer . Clearly a problem round here ! They had to offer something in order to appeal. The current schools system is shot and there have been numerous meetings and discussions going on between authority and school to find out what they have been upto as they are regularly turning catchment kids away but taking kids from else where. So lots of questions raised. But this is not my problem and they agreed that we shouldn’t have to wait while the whole system is pulled apart.

I was hoping they would fall at the first hurdle and it won’t go to appeal. But with no news I’m loosing hope. I just feel so bad for my daughter. We never expected this at all. I’m kind of hoping with their dodgy behaviour that they get pulled up for not sticking to policy and then she wins on default I believe. It’s just a stress for her 😢.

OP posts:
Raera · 10/02/2022 11:43

There is some information on the below
childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/transport/

prh47bridge · 10/02/2022 11:48

Rejecting the offered school was not a good move. If it was more than 3 miles from home by the shortest safe walking distance, the LA was required to provide free transport for your daughter. It is true that government guidance is that a journey of up to 75 minutes each way is reasonable for a secondary school pupil, but we don't know if the LA would have provided a bus pass or a taxi so we don't know if the length of the bus journey is relevant. Some LAs ignore this guidance despite it being statutory guidance and do force secondary school pupils to travel over 75 minutes each way. Appeal panels don't always get this right.

The problem with rejecting the offer and keeping your daughter at her current school is that it may look to the appeal panel like you are trying to blackmail them into giving your daughter a place at the school you want.

You are right that, to win your appeal, you need to show that the disadvantage to your daughter from not attending the appeal school outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional pupil. However, transport issues are unlikely to win your case. That is viewed as a problem for you, not your daughter, and the panel will know that the LA would have been required to provide free transport if you had accepted the offered school. To win, you will need to focus on things the appeal school provides that are missing from the offered school and that are particularly relevant to your daughter.

Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 14:05

@prh47bridge

Rejecting the offered school was not a good move. If it was more than 3 miles from home by the shortest safe walking distance, the LA was required to provide free transport for your daughter. It is true that government guidance is that a journey of up to 75 minutes each way is reasonable for a secondary school pupil, but we don't know if the LA would have provided a bus pass or a taxi so we don't know if the length of the bus journey is relevant. Some LAs ignore this guidance despite it being statutory guidance and do force secondary school pupils to travel over 75 minutes each way. Appeal panels don't always get this right.

The problem with rejecting the offer and keeping your daughter at her current school is that it may look to the appeal panel like you are trying to blackmail them into giving your daughter a place at the school you want.

You are right that, to win your appeal, you need to show that the disadvantage to your daughter from not attending the appeal school outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional pupil. However, transport issues are unlikely to win your case. That is viewed as a problem for you, not your daughter, and the panel will know that the LA would have been required to provide free transport if you had accepted the offered school. To win, you will need to focus on things the appeal school provides that are missing from the offered school and that are particularly relevant to your daughter.

All of this is interesting and would have been useful before hand. But how would an average lay person be expected to know all the details of what sounds like a complex system. Not everyone is capable of reading every single policy there is out there. I don’t think I have actually rejected anything. I appealed the rejection to this school. Is that the same thing?

What about issues surrounding safety? Surely they cannot expect her to travel in darkness in the early hours - alone - on several buses ? I cannot take her.

Our current situation is that she stays between a friends and my parents. Obviously not ideal splitting the family up. But rather than move and potentially move again , we decided to do this short term. Some days it’s a 40 mile round trip for me if not more.

The situation is now changing as the friend who helps us having marriages difficulties and going through a separation. They have asked if I could make other arrangements for her as it’s not a nice environment for her. My dad has become unwell and my mum is his career. It’s no longer possible for her to go there either.

I was advised to keep her in this school to show commitment to her eduction and prevent social isolation now that we have moved areas.

I guess we will see ! If they could just hurry up with the date !

OP posts:
Somebodylikeyew · 10/02/2022 15:29

When they offered you a school 7.5 miles away, did they put that in writing? And have you accepted or declined that place?

And what did they say about transport when they offered you that place?

prh47bridge · 10/02/2022 15:41

You said that you decided the best way forward was to reject and appeal. I took that to mean you had rejected the offered place.

Issues surrounding safety when travelling are still generally regarded as your problem. And again, you are assuming that she would be going by bus. You may find that the LA provides an alternative means of transport. Given the distance to the offered school, they must provide free transport. Whilst that could be a bus pass, it may be a taxi or a school bus.

LIZS · 10/02/2022 15:51

Is the 7.5miles school not a shorter round trip than going back to previous one?

calmrood · 10/02/2022 15:57

You haven't answered if the LA have offered transport to the school 7miles away?

Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 17:23

@calmrood

You haven't answered if the LA have offered transport to the school 7miles away?
We have had no transport offered.
OP posts:
Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 17:24

No. The old school is a detour to where I work but as I say we are juggling. The offered school is opposite direction 20 mins up the motorway in the car. I would have to leave my job as a nurse (shift work) which obviously is absolutely not an option

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumsybud · 10/02/2022 17:27

I need my daughter to be able to independently get to school safely

OP posts:
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