Anyone know if Rainbows are excluded from getting Gold due to attendance?

[NoMoreGold]

DD is 6, very nearly 7 so goes to Brownies soon.

She’s desperate for her gold, and already has silver and bronze.

She’s been at Rainbows since June last year and missed only 4 meetings; this week, last week and then two last year.

Just been told she can’t do Gold because she’s not been a member for 2 years.

Is this right?

Seems a bit unfair that even if she gets the two remaining theme awards she’s ineligible for the Gold. I can’t see anything in the badge book or on the Girlguiding website about it.

It’s bad enough that they only do badge work every 4 weeks so it feels slow to get the themes as it is – the leaders said they get bored if they do badge work more often.

I am a bit miffed, and feel it’s totally unfair.

Is this the same for Brownies too?

Assuming its right, that's fine I'll prepare DD for it.

I don't know but I'd be v miffed about this too. At Beavers, if you do the badge work, you get the Bronze award. It is hard explaining these things to kids. I hve to say thay at my daughter's brownies they did barely any badge work compared with Beavers who were always ticking things towards badges off.

We got told DD couldn't get gold as they do things in quarters and obviously couldn't start when five due to covid. Wish they could adjust it for those who couldn't start or finish due to lock downs.

Can she choose to stay on? My dd could have technically moved to guides in September but brownies let her stay an extra term so she could get her gold.

@Newnormal99

Can she choose to stay on? My dd could have technically moved to guides in September but brownies let her stay an extra term so she could get her gold.

@Newnormal99 Been told no as there's a waiting list.

It does seem a bit unfair that she can't get it due to the way the programmes run.

There’s no guidance on how long they must have been a member in order to get the awards. But they must have been there long enough to have completely all the different parts.

Completing 2 theme awards in a short period of time isn’t going to be easy for the leaders to plan. Plus if she missed some sessions, the other Rainbows may have already completed the relevant activities and then the leaders would have to try and rerun the previous activities whilst also running new ones.

It’s a shame for your daughter, but in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter. She achieved 2 of the awards!

I don’t think there’s a time limit, but she may have missed some unit meeting activities on those evenings which contribute - but the leader should be able to give her the activities she missed to catch up on at home!

@JuniperAndTonic

I don’t think there’s a time limit, but she may have missed some unit meeting activities on those evenings which contribute - but the leader should be able to give her the activities she missed to catch up on at home!

@JuniperAndTonic They've told me she can't do the skills builders at home is has to be during the unit meetings only. And they can't tell me when the badge work will be as it depends on whats happening and what girls are in.

@MrsFionaCharming

There’s no guidance on how long they must have been a member in order to get the awards. But they must have been there long enough to have completely all the different parts.

Completing 2 theme awards in a short period of time isn’t going to be easy for the leaders to plan. Plus if she missed some sessions, the other Rainbows may have already completed the relevant activities and then the leaders would have to try and rerun the previous activities whilst also running new ones.

It’s a shame for your daughter, but in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter. She achieved 2 of the awards!

@MrsFionaCharming They've said she cannot get the gold even if she gets the last two theme awards because she hasn't been with them 2 years. So even if she does them she won't get the gold.

They've said she cannot get the gold even if she gets the last two theme awards because she hasn't been with them 2 years. So even if she does them she won't get the gold.
This is incorrect. Rainbows can (until very recently) only start when they turn 5 and leave when they turn 7, so this would mean that basically no-one would ever get the Gold. If they started at 5 year 1 week, they wouldn't be there for 2 full years before turning 7. They have misunderstood somewhere.

To get the theme awards they do have to do a certain number of minutes of UMA activities so a girl could be ineligible due to attendance if she had missed too many of these to get the right number of minutes.

And your leader is correct that skills builders are supposed to be done at Rainbows, not at home. Sometimes they might send one activity home to finish if they missed a session and it was just one that was preventing them getting the badge, but not all units do this.

I would contact the district or division commissioner, you should have the details for her on the Rainbows starter form or you can find them on GO or ask the leader for her email address. Ask her to clarify whether they have to be there for a full 2 years (they don't)

@DockOTheBay

They've said she cannot get the gold even if she gets the last two theme awards because she hasn't been with them 2 years. So even if she does them she won't get the gold. This is incorrect. Rainbows can (until very recently) only start when they turn 5 and leave when they turn 7, so this would mean that basically no-one would ever get the Gold. If they started at 5 year 1 week, they wouldn't be there for 2 full years before turning 7. They have misunderstood somewhere.

To get the theme awards they do have to do a certain number of minutes of UMA activities so a girl could be ineligible due to attendance if she had missed too many of these to get the right number of minutes.

And your leader is correct that skills builders are supposed to be done at Rainbows, not at home. Sometimes they might send one activity home to finish if they missed a session and it was just one that was preventing them getting the badge, but not all units do this.

@DockOTheBay I think this might be the issue really, because they only do badge work once or twice per half term.

I'm hoping Brownies isn't the same, but if it is it is DDs there longer. So should have chance to earn gold.

She got her place just after her 6th birthday (birthday is end of May). She was offered a place a few weeks before Lockdown 2 but they said that any girl that hadn't been to an actual meeting couldn't join in online.

It'll be almost 12 months on her 7th birthday but they said they count from the promise date not the joining date and she didn't do her promise until December.

@DockOTheBay

I would contact the district or division commissioner, you should have the details for her on the Rainbows starter form or you can find them on GO or ask the leader for her email address. Ask her to clarify whether they have to be there for a full 2 years (they don't)

@DockOTheBay She got her place just after her 6th birthday (birthday is end of May). She was offered a place a few weeks before Lockdown 2 but they said that any girl that hadn't been to an actual meeting couldn't join in online.

It'll be almost 12 months on her 7th birthday but they said they count from the promise date not the joining date and she didn't do her promise until December.

The DC is our Rainbows leader, so would have to go up I think.

To be honest I would be very surprised for a Rainbow to get gold after only being there for 12 months.

They have to do 2 hours of UMAs for each theme, so that's 12 hours. UMAs aren't "badge work" but count towards the theme award.
Each skills builder badge is 4 activities so probably a further 20 hours or so for 6 of those. If they meet for 1hr a week term time, that's 39 weeks a year so 39 hours. they would have to do programme work pretty much constantly and not miss any sessions in order to achieve it in 1 year. It is pretty incredible that they've got her through 4 theme awards in that time.

The issue isn’t that she hasn’t been a Rainbow for two years, but that the programme has so many clauses in it that it is really hard to cover it all in less than 2 years. And it seems that the Rainbow leader is unfortunately not finding a clear enough way to explain.
There are six themes in the programme, and to complete the gold award, the girls need to complete a certain amount of ‘unit meeting activities’, plus a skill builder badge (at least 4 activities from an activity pack), plus an interest badge, for all six themes. As most Rainbow units meet for only one hour a week, for 10 weeks a term on average, it takes roughly six terms to get through all the programme.

The programme work is supposed to take up about two thirds of our activity time. We could get through the programme stuff a little more quickly, but it would mean cutting out the extras - no repeats of favourite games, no panto trip, visit from an outside speaker just because it is fun, Christmas party or Easter egg hunt… As leaders we try to adapt the official activities to fit the fun opportunities as often as we can, to get the most out the time we have available. But it is super tight at Rainbow age. Brownies and Guides are typically in their units for more than six terms, so there is time to repeat a theme if they’ve missed a week for some reason. And by then, if you repeat an activity it is long enough ago that the girls have forgotten it, or are older and approaching it with a more mature level of experience so they get something a bit different out of it. But Rainbows are really lucky if they’ve been able to get a place as soon as they’re 5 so many are are at Rainbows for less than 6 terms anyway.

It is a recognised difficulty with the ‘new’ programme (it has actually been in place for a few years, but COVID has made bedding it in a nightmare) and we may not have it quite right yet. Personally, I think it is ok for Guides and Brownies but too much for Rainbows. But in the meantime, your unit leaders are probably doing their best with what they have to work around. If your daughter feels strongly about getting her gold award there may be activity days at one of the Girlguiding activity centres that you could take her to, that might cover some skill builder badges, if that’s what she’s missing. But they probably won’t help with unit meeting activities. The only thing I can think of is that if you offer to help, the leaders might be willing to run an activity day at a weekend, to create more time. But that is a huge additional commitment for leaders and one that we’re not all able to make.

Your daughter will have so much fun at Brownies, though, that I’d recommend that you encourage her to move on rather than stay for longer at Rainbows, even if they had space. Once she reaches 7 she’ll find the Brownie activities much more exciting - and giving her the full time in Brownies means that she’s much more likely to finish the programme as far as the gold award there. I hope she has fun once she ‘jumps the Rainbow’ into Brownies.

@DockOTheBay

To be honest I would be very surprised for a Rainbow to get gold after only being there for 12 months.

They have to do 2 hours of UMAs for each theme, so that's 12 hours. UMAs aren't "badge work" but count towards the theme award.
Each skills builder badge is 4 activities so probably a further 20 hours or so for 6 of those. If they meet for 1hr a week term time, that's 39 weeks a year so 39 hours. they would have to do programme work pretty much constantly and not miss any sessions in order to achieve it in 1 year. It is pretty incredible that they've got her through 4 theme awards in that time.

@DockOTheBay She's done all the interest badges and attended something in the holidays last year where they did some badge work as well, it was only 2 hours worth a week for the 6 weeks though (and it wasn't childcare as the parent/grandparent had to stay).

I was very impressed with it. I think I'm just frustrated that they're giving the reason as 2 years attendance rather than it being about her having missed the skill builder/UMAs.

I wish there was another way. But will prepare her that she won't get Gold.

I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to say that with the last two years our DC have had to deal with, you'd think there would be some enthusiasm from leaders to do what they can to help children achieve. It just seems really mean spirited. I didn't realise DC are expected to attend every single class, as it's highly likely most children will have absence at some point and this should be allowed for (especially in Covid times). I don't understand her not being able to stay on due to the waitlist either. When you're on a waiting list, you wait until a spot becomes free. Her spot hasn't become free until she completes her gold as she wants to, so they'll have to wait a little longer. Seems a very inflexible system. Definitely go higher up.

Also to add to what everyone else has said so well. The interest badges are technically supposed to be done at home (at least for guides I may be wrong about rainbows) so if they're taking time in the unit to do them as a group that will be eating into the time too.

I have a feeling she probably just said the two year thing as it was easier than explaining everything that needs to be done within the two years to receive it which won't be possible for your wee girl. There are issues with the programme at this is unfortunately one that has been brought up to GG UK.

I'm sure she will love brownies though!

Omg it just ate my really long reply.

To get to the point I was making (which isn't as great without the things I described, admittedly) your daughter should be being supported to achieve as much as she can. Sometimes it's not possible. But please do make sure she feels proud of herself for achieving everything she already has.

I'm a brownie and guide leader, my daughter has left brownies just short of a silver, but we couldn't stuff anything else into our schedule already.

Units run differently and as long as they follow the same base rules and such, how much or little TMAs or UMAs etc they do is up to the leaders. Some do more.

Maybe as PP said, they mean that its just not possible to do it in 2 years but there has been a misunderstanding somewhere along the way.

Well done to her for completing the interest badges and doing Bronze and Silver, that is a great accomplishment even if she doesn't get the Gold award.

I would encourage her to do the two remaining themes if she can, and then enquire again about doing the Gold.

@JennyWren

The issue isn’t that she hasn’t been a Rainbow for two years, but that the programme has so many clauses in it that it is really hard to cover it all in less than 2 years. And it seems that the Rainbow leader is unfortunately not finding a clear enough way to explain. There are six themes in the programme, and to complete the gold award, the girls need to complete a certain amount of ‘unit meeting activities’, plus a skill builder badge (at least 4 activities from an activity pack), plus an interest badge, for all six themes. As most Rainbow units meet for only one hour a week, for 10 weeks a term on average, it takes roughly six terms to get through all the programme.

The programme work is supposed to take up about two thirds of our activity time. We could get through the programme stuff a little more quickly, but it would mean cutting out the extras - no repeats of favourite games, no panto trip, visit from an outside speaker just because it is fun, Christmas party or Easter egg hunt… As leaders we try to adapt the official activities to fit the fun opportunities as often as we can, to get the most out the time we have available. But it is super tight at Rainbow age. Brownies and Guides are typically in their units for more than six terms, so there is time to repeat a theme if they’ve missed a week for some reason. And by then, if you repeat an activity it is long enough ago that the girls have forgotten it, or are older and approaching it with a more mature level of experience so they get something a bit different out of it. But Rainbows are really lucky if they’ve been able to get a place as soon as they’re 5 so many are are at Rainbows for less than 6 terms anyway.

It is a recognised difficulty with the ‘new’ programme (it has actually been in place for a few years, but COVID has made bedding it in a nightmare) and we may not have it quite right yet. Personally, I think it is ok for Guides and Brownies but too much for Rainbows. But in the meantime, your unit leaders are probably doing their best with what they have to work around. If your daughter feels strongly about getting her gold award there may be activity days at one of the Girlguiding activity centres that you could take her to, that might cover some skill builder badges, if that’s what she’s missing. But they probably won’t help with unit meeting activities. The only thing I can think of is that if you offer to help, the leaders might be willing to run an activity day at a weekend, to create more time. But that is a huge additional commitment for leaders and one that we’re not all able to make.

Your daughter will have so much fun at Brownies, though, that I’d recommend that you encourage her to move on rather than stay for longer at Rainbows, even if they had space. Once she reaches 7 she’ll find the Brownie activities much more exciting - and giving her the full time in Brownies means that she’s much more likely to finish the programme as far as the gold award there. I hope she has fun once she ‘jumps the Rainbow’ into Brownies.

@JennyWren I think thats my frustration even if she'd joined at just turned 5 (there wasn't a space) she still wouldn't have done all the themes.

I'm still going to encourage her and I'm not taking it out on the leaders, they are trying they just clumsily explained it.

I didn't realise they only did badge work once or twice a term. It's not that I hate the extras, I just didn't realise they weren't badge work. I think DDs probably missed the badge work for this half term so will miss out on the theme for this half tern. It is what it is.

@MrsToadflax

I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to say that with the last two years our DC have had to deal with, you'd think there would be some enthusiasm from leaders to do what they can to help children achieve. It just seems really mean spirited. I didn't realise DC are expected to attend every single class, as it's highly likely most children will have absence at some point and this should be allowed for (especially in Covid times). I don't understand her not being able to stay on due to the waitlist either. When you're on a waiting list, you wait until a spot becomes free. Her spot hasn't become free until she completes her gold as she wants to, so they'll have to wait a little longer. Seems a very inflexible system. Definitely go higher up.

That's not really how it works unfortunately. They are Rainbows until they are 7. You can't have a girl stay on until she is 7.5, 8, 9... to complete her Gold award because she wants to.

They aren't expected to attend every week, but if they want to achieve the Gold award then realistically they have to come as much as possible. Not everyone is going to achieve it, in fact most won't. That's not "mean spirited", its just the way this particular award works. It wouldn't be impressive to achieve the Gold award if everyone gets given it, whether they had met the criteria or not, or if everyone gets to stay at Rainbows until they've finished it.

She absolutely hates missing Rainbows, but it couldn't be avoided.

She had covid and now I have covid.

The ones she missed before were for appointments. I try to avoid Rainbows night for appointments, but she has some conditions so it can't be avoided always.

I'll definitely encourage her to stay and go to Brownies, I hope she'll love it as much as she loves Rainbows, and I am so proud of her for getting Bronze and Silver, she worked on the Interest Badges.

Interest Badges aren't done in meetings, at all. She's one of the only girls in her group with Bronze and Silver.

*she worked hard on the interest badges

It sounds very frustrating, she is enthusiastic about it and put so much in, and doesn't get recognised. I'd be on Ebay seeing if I could buy her the damn badge tbh.