NHS workers/HR/Payroll staff- advice please on hours!

[4pmwinetimebebeh]

Hello,

Within the NHS can anyone tell me if you are able to have 'random' hours contracts? By random I mean an irregular number but the same every week not different hours different weeks IYSWIM. I've worked full time (37.5 hours a week) and part time (22.5 and 30 hours a week) however a job is coming up and in an ideal world I'd like to do three long days which would equate to 33 hours a week. When I was full time I did 3 LD for 3 weeks then 4 LD for the fourth week to make up the missed hours but due to childcare etc I don't really want to do that.

Is this possible in the NHS if the manager agrees or is it always 7.5/15/22.5/30/37.5 across the week? Obviously appreciate it would be at the discression of the manager and they may say no but thought I would just find out if its a possibility before asking.

Thanks!!

It’s possible if the line manager agrees, but ESR won’t record it formally.

@NavigatingAdolescence that's interesting, if it isn't formally recorded how is payroll etc done correctly for the right hours? Would ESR say the higher amount 37.5 hours?

It might depend on the role. Some roles are based on staffing and set shift times. If it's not one of those, it might be possible.

I work for a public sector organisation that's been in a number of departments and was for a time on NHS T&Cs. We definitely had at least one employee who worked 34 hours a week over 4 longish days and she was paid 34/37.5 x the FT annual salary. We also have people who do full time but different numbers of hours each day. Eg a long Monday and standard 7.5 hours a day some of the week, plus a short Friday, usually so they can share childcare with a partner.

You can only ask and try and think of advantages for the employer, eg staff retention and possibly filling in gaps in cover, eg if you're proposing to work when others have non working days/times. Maybe discuss with your line manager/HR because it really depends and in some settings might not be possible or cause difficulties, but easily accommodated in others.

I have done just this I am working 33hrs over a 2 week period. So it could be 2 days one week and 4 the next or 3 days for a couple of weeks etc depending on DH's shift pattern. I gave my manager a 12 week rota in advance and they have been able to accommodate this. You just need to ask. Some employers can, some can't it just depends.

Thank you @BarbaraofSeville. Definitely ultimately the needs of the service comes first. Reassuring to hear its possibly to have an odd number of hours contract and being paid for it (e.g. 0.85 WTE).

From a pay perspective it’s easy. It’s annual leave that becomes tricky.

Even annual leave isn't difficult because everyone, including standard full timers, are on annual hours, so it's easy to work out entitlements fairly and consistently and everyone just takes the number of hours required to take a day/half day/week off.

So you want to drop thr make up shift? I know people who have done this, they work 34.5 or suchlike, your ESR is just changed to accommodate.

@Redlorryyellowduck thats exactly it. 34.5 is probably right for 3 long days/week

@4pmwinetimebebeh my friend did it, she says she barely noticed a pay drop, but her quality of life has improved drastically. Go for it. Just be upfront in the interview. Sometimes it's actually easier for the team if you don't do the make up shift, as everyone is then on long days and the off duty is easier.

@BarbaraofSeville

Even annual leave isn't difficult because everyone, including standard full timers, are on annual hours, so it's easy to work out entitlements fairly and consistently and everyone just takes the number of hours required to take a day/half day/week off.

But if ESR is set up as a 7.5 hour day (as it tends to be) and you work a longer day by agreement (eg 11 hours) you have to override what a day’s leave is in ESR to take the right amount.

I did a 9 day fortnight, so 8 hours 20 mins per day. When I booked leave the default was 7.5 and I would have to override it with 8.33. Small matter but getting it wrong could have implications (overtaking leave).

Go on Bank you can work what hours you want but obviously may not be regular, although the way things are at the moment you woukd probably have lots of work !

Thanks @Redlorryyellowduck. I know so hard to know when to raise/discuss these things. Also maybe being pre-emptive as may not get the job . Things like hours etc are often raised at the end of interviews these days aren't they so I think I'll lay my cards on the table as it were if that is the case.

@LadyNell I know but I work in a specific specialism which doesn't have massive bank availability. I'm sure theres LOADS of bank on the general wards but I want a set job really if I can!

But if ESR is set up as a 7.5 hour day (as it tends to be) and you work a longer day by agreement (eg 11 hours) you have to override what a day’s leave is in ESR to take the right amount

ESR is a pile of shite that you have to over-ride most of the time anyway. Eg if you work M-F and want to take off Weds to Weds, you have to enter it in two blocks or over-ride to remove the weekend days that it counted. In my department we keep separate AL records because it is impossible to rely on what ESR is telling us, but they still make us use it for reasons that I never understand.

@BarbaraofSeville

But if ESR is set up as a 7.5 hour day (as it tends to be) and you work a longer day by agreement (eg 11 hours) you have to override what a day’s leave is in ESR to take the right amount

ESR is a pile of shite that you have to over-ride most of the time anyway. Eg if you work M-F and want to take off Weds to Weds, you have to enter it in two blocks or over-ride to remove the weekend days that it counted. In my department we keep separate AL records because it is impossible to rely on what ESR is telling us, but they still make us use it for reasons that I never understand.

So that HR Directors like me can see what’s going on!

I'm contracted to 36 hours on an out of hours nursing post.

I work 36 hrs over a 9 day fortnight so not quite F/T. I have not had any problems, eroster changed my default hours to 8 per day and A/L is calculated automatically I hours.

@HeyBlaby @beeswain that's good to know!

@NavigatingAdolescence hats off to you trying to manage HR with multiple systems and then people doing their own systems too- must be tricky! I remember keeping my own A/L record v carefully when I worked in A&E as eroster/ESR often didn't match up to what I'd actually taken! Nightmare

I work 33 contracted hours per week - 9-9 with an hours break. Community nurse. ESR is no issue - annual leave has been put on as pro-rata for the reduced hours and when I book leave it automatically allocates 11 hours.

ESR doesn't record working hours, it tends to be the Health Roster now. You can set up different shift times within it.
You need to complete a flexible working contract. Mine is something like working at any time during the hours of 7.30-18.30 per day.

I do 32.5 hours a week and don't have a problem. I tend to take a week of leave in one go and ESR just automatically records 32.5 hours leave for the week. The length of my days don't match the ESR days in any case so if I only want a day off I just decide how many hours leave I want to use up and put that in - as long as it balances up roughly every month it really doesn't matter.
Good luck!

I have someone in my team who works 0.81 full time equivalent which is 32 hours per week. We are not patient facing and so it works

Yes it’s possible - pay and annual leave aren’t a problem. Even with a modern roster system it’s best to have set hours and shifts as someone has to make adjustments.
I’d be concerned that you have sufficient work to do and that you’re not lone working. If someone is needed in role across the week then I’d be more inclined to a reduction of hours so we could employ another member of staff on the days you’re not going to be in.
Flexible working requests are encouraged but I’d want to review this one annually.

I did 18.75 hours was bliss girls who did 3 ld did 34.5 I think depends on how long your shifts are ours were 11.5 hours. Holidays are made up in hours and there is rarely set days in Nhs wards anyway that I’ve come across, unless you have a specific reason you need to do them we have to do nights weekends days. I think it’s more common in the community or non 24 hr services to be set days though.