Should I encourage ds to tweak his personality?

[PossiblyDreaming]

I know this sounds awful. I know. But. My 9yo has become such a pedant over the past few months. He constantly corrects everyone - his teachers, his friends, me, waitresses in cafes. Everyone. Each time he does it I tell him that if he hasn’t got anything nice to say then to please not say it. It makes people feel small and it’s not a nice thing to do. He claims I correct him (making him pronounce T’s, correct his homework etc. nothing on the level he does) so therefore he can do it too.

I’ve just driven him and his mate to a hobby and the whole drive ds was just constantly correcting his mate - friend says “we’re probably about 5 minutes away now”, ds replies “no, we’re not we haven’t even gone past X yet it’s at least 10 minutes and even if it was 5 minutes we’d be 10 minutes early so we’d have to sit in the car until it’s time”. Comments like that to absolutely everything his friend said. He does this constantly to everyone and it’s incredibly annoying.

He’s in year 5 and at secondary will be going to a school away from all his current classmates. I’m already worrying about how he’s going to fit in. He’s being assessed for ASD but it’s taking years and even if he does get a diagnosis he’s high functioning enough to not really require additional support. This pedantry could be a part of ASD, I suppose.

Please be gentle. I know it’s an awful thing for a mother to say but I’m just really concerned at how unlikeable he’s becoming. I don’t want him to be excluded. He can be such a lovely, kind and funny boy but when he thinks he’s right about something (and annoyingly he usually is) he cannot let it pass without making a comment. Any advice on how to approach it? Or should I just leave him to it and hope it’s a phase he grows out of?

"*It's not a meal it's a snack"
*
This is so my ds! He just can't help himself! And that's an example I give where what they say makes no difference to the outcome so best to keep schtum!

Indo think people are more aware and accepting of neuro diversity nowadays that it gets easier as they grow up and their friends can articulate how the pedanticness makes them feel.

I remember when a waitress asked who the lemonade was for. No one answered so I reminded d a it was his. His reply? "No - I ordered a sprite" 🤦🏼‍♀️🤣

@Ozanj

It’s also a sign of anxiety and children do get this more frequently when they have a parent who overcorrects them. Only you know what happens in your house but the fact that he’s saying he’s emulating you suggests, to me at least, that you need to find a way to stop and move from correction to demonstration / letting him fail. If he doesn’t cross his t’s and fails a test because the teacher he’ll learn not to do it again. Same with homework - just mark it as a teacher would and make him rework it until he gets it right without correcting him. He doesn’t need you to point it out every time.

Do you have a source for this? I’d be interested to see what research has shown this as I’ve never come across it before.

Definitely correct him. Be brutal: people are not going to like you if you correct them all the time, it's negative.

Teach the "yes and" technique to keep the conversation going and offer any additional information he wants to add

eg we're 5 minutes away - yes and we're probably going to be early
is this your meal? - yes and it looks delicious
who's the lemonade? - yes that's my Sprite

I remember 9/10 being the worst age for this (DS has ASD). It does settle in time, what we have now is pedantry linked to things he likes/doesn't like: so if I say 'DS hurry up it's time for school' he'll say something like 'I have 45 seconds left before I have to get my shoes on.'

It is wearing - and may well not be helpful - to correct it all the time. We talked a lot about friendship and social conversation and how that worked. We reminded him that not everyone wants to know the contents of his mind all the time... and tried to work on phrases that move the conversation forward rather than stopping it dead. This is obviously tricky stuff. Keep at it. Just not all the time.

It’s so hard too as for years he’s been such a quiet child and so unsure of himself. And now, suddenly, he’s confident enough to know when he’s right about something but he just can’t stop himself from letting everyone know that he’s right and they’re wrong. I don’t want to knock his confidence but it’s just becoming a really nasty trait.

@PossiblyDreaming

I certainly wouldn’t ever tell him that he’s being annoying or tell him to shut up, I’m not that awful. It’s just so obvious to me when people are getting frustrated with him - a waitress saying “enjoy your meal” and him replying “it’s not a meal, it’s a snack” etc. that I don’t know how to react. I don’t want to apologise on his behalf as that seems really cruel but also,IMO it’s completely unacceptable to speak to an adult like that who is making a completely inane comment.

Some of this you really don't need to correct. You could reply "You're right, it's a snack for us and we are going to enjoy it, thank you."

It’s only been in the last year I’ve managed to convince him to accept a drink being called a “hot chocolate” as he would insist he hated hot chocolate and would only consider warm chocolate.
"Yes you're right, it is warm isn't it. Language is funny sometimes."

The other thing I would recommend is that instead of just focus on telling him when he has said something rude, try to help him learn to develop his own judgement.
So if he says something clearly rude, ask him afterwards, how he thinks that person might have felt when he said that.

I remember overhearing my autistic son giving a friend a very hard time over his friend's belief in god. My son just couldn't understand why anyone would believe it and he didn't back off when his friend tried to end the conversation. Later on, I had a chat with him to try to help him see the conversation from his friend's point of view. It was really interesting. Obviously, he didn't get it at first but we have worked on this a lot over the years and he has really developed a much better understanding of what to say and what not to say.

Hi op. Don't give up on the autism support. My daughter is similar to this and is high functioning autistic. This is a symptom of a social and communication disorder its not about a flaw in him . You are right to want to help him change but there is support he can get.

Can you ask the senco at your school for the local groups who support families with autism there are communication therapies and if you are waiting you could potentially pay for private support?

With the right help he can learn some of the conversation and communication skills he is lacking. It is so tough seeing your own child behave in a way that is annoying .

My daughter is 7 and just talks so much and can be quite rude to adults and other children and I just cringe fir her. Luckily people often find it funny but I know they won't as she gets older!

It’s only been in the last year I’ve managed to convince him to accept a drink being called a “hot chocolate” as he would insist he hated hot chocolate and would only consider warm chocolate.

That's so funny. I wouldn't correct that one

It sounds like he may not be NT, so what sounds like obvious instruction to you - stop doing that/people won’t like you - is not at all obvious to him. He may simply not understand the impact he has on others, or see any reason not to correct someone if they are wrong.

He probably needs help in learning how communications and relationships work. Social stories can be helpful as PP says, I would also join ASD kids organisations and get reading, advice and support from there. Make a fuss about getting the diagnoses speeding up.

Yes. You wouldn’t be changing his personality, simply correcting his behaviour when he’s being rude.

My son is autistic, and we need to correct things like this very often because to put it simply other kids won’t like him if he behaves rudely to them. Outside of communications with others we role play situations and look at social stories. We work a lot on talk and listen because my son loves a monologue. I don’t consider it squashing his personality but simply giving him the tools to have good conversations and make friends without only considering himself.

A lot of people will suggest that you shouldn’t/it’s mean but our job is to teach our kids to live in the world and socialise with others. If you let him rudely correct people he’s not likely to keep many friends as it will hurt other people’s feelings. I often have to say to my son ‘what if Katie said/did x? How would you feel then?’ And that seems to help him put together the idea that how he feels in reaction to other people is often exactly the same as how they feel.

It’s only been in the last year I’ve managed to convince him to accept a drink being called a “hot chocolate” as he would insist he hated hot chocolate and would only consider warm chocolate.
"Yes you're right, it is warm isn't it. Language is funny sometimes."

The only way my son would accept things like this is showing him the box and saying ‘hot chocolate is it’s name.’ Then he would accept it’s hot chocolate. We used to have a similar issue with me calling things ‘cereal.’ So if I said do you want cereal he would say ‘it’s not cereal, it’s Frosties.’ So when we went to the supermarket he helped me find his Frosties and saw that the aisle they lived in was ‘cereal.’ I was then treated to a wonderful game of ‘what things can be categorised as bread’ on the way home, but it did seem to sink into his head that some things can have different names/names that don’t make sense.

@TrainingToBeFun posted great advice. I think OP's instincts are right - her DS needs to adapt his behaviour a little, to prevent him becoming socially isolated through alienating everybody around him.

OP, you are right to encourage some tweaking to his behaviour, but he doesn't need to change his personality completely.

@VoiceofReason I'm aspergers diagnosed and you sound like a lovely, understanding parent.
I agree with everything you said. My eldest is also diagnosed and is now 19. He used to be the same and still does it occasionally to me, but he has friends and knows when to bite his tongue now.

@mellicauli

Definitely correct him. Be brutal: people are not going to like you if you correct them all the time, it's negative.

Teach the "yes and" technique to keep the conversation going and offer any additional information he wants to add

eg we're 5 minutes away - yes and we're probably going to be early
is this your meal? - yes and it looks delicious
who's the lemonade? - yes that's my Sprite

Problem with that is although I agree and do teach my autistic ds not to correct people. He genuinely didn't orders lemonade in his mind. He'd ordered a sprite! Not a 7up, r whites or anything. A sprite. So when she said lemonade he couldn't actually work out that she meant the sprite!

[quote ofwarren]@VoiceofReason I'm aspergers diagnosed and you sound like a lovely, understanding parent.
I agree with everything you said. My eldest is also diagnosed and is now 19. He used to be the same and still does it occasionally to me, but he has friends and knows when to bite his tongue now. [/quote]
That's lovely. My 17yo is learning when to keep quiet. Not always but we are getting there.

I've often actually sometimes gone to correct him and then questioned why. I've put myself in the autistic mindset - rather than the not social norms one - and thought. Is that rude? Or are we just too polite and "British" at times.

Over the many years of incidents where I've wanted to hide under a rock I've actually also become very respectful of his mindset and seen the absolute advantages of it. He certainly wouldn't be handwringing on Mn about whether telling someone they aren't doing something that inconveniences them is ok or not

It will depend on the individual but it might be worth spelling out the differences in relationships.

Parents, teachers will point out errors because they’re helping you to learn. Friends don’t do that unless asked because it makes it really hard to just enjoy someone’s company.

If he puts any importance in friends then hopefully he will be able to see the logic in holding back in social situations.

FYI ‘high functioning’ does NOT mean not requiring support. It just means average or above IQ.

This is like all three of my children (one diagnosed asd and adhd, one on the waiting list, having a chat with the Senco soon about the 6 year old )
We do social stories, role play and the school have been great with doing little weekly sessions in the classroom and in their Nurture Zone. My 10 year old and 8 year olds get reminders at home that not everyone likes it and at school children will comment on it.

It's a common phase.

Ultimately 'do you want to be right, or do you want to have friends?'. But the time when you recognise the truth of that, is when you've already lost the friends.

You should focus on manners, respect and social norms - as a topic with rules, that can be learnt.

I don't think I'd allow to a child to do that to a waitress, shopkeeper or anyone in a discretionary service relationship. That is, I'd remind him beforehand that we're going to be polite and respectful and that, if he cannot follow those rules, we're going to pay and leave, without consuming anything further.

But also, manners are very cultural and British manners are very opaque.

Go on hols to the Netherlands (lots of directness), or the US (he'll seem polite and reserved but may learn that being very demanding is ok!).

Irrespective of ASD, the common phrase 'know one likes a know-it-all' is common for a reason. This is a common and annoying childhood phase - not dissimilar to the always asking why phase. Of course you should correct it.

My ASD 10yo does this all the time. There is a great book with a chapter on this. The book is aimed at young teens ‘The Asperkids (secret) book of Social Rules’

www.amazon.co.uk/Asperkids-Secret-Book-Social-Rules/dp/1849059152/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Would you be in a position to pay privately for an assessment the public waiting lists are crazy. At least if you had a diagnosis you would know exactly what you are dealing with and what supports your son needs.

He might think he's being sassy and smart just like many TV characters (The Big Bang etc).

I'd do role play type questions with him when he does this. What would you feel if someone said that to you. What was the purpose of asking the question? Do you want to make the person feel stupid or do you you want them to think you are more intelligent than them, How would you feel if people kept pointing out that they were better than you. If you had a choice to play with people who corrected you or other people who would you choose? Etc

(sorry not given great examples there but hopefully you know what I'm getting at).

Basically, id try and get him to verbalise why he is doing it and what the impact on other people is. The objective being that he works out for himself that it's not ok.

I’m glad there is a suitable book @Squidwardrules
On chocolate:
Chocolate (noun uncountable) is solid
A chocolate (noun countable) is solid but small eg a coffee cream
Hot chocolate (noun uncountable) is liquid
A hot chocolate (noun countable) is a portion of liquid.

So a warm chocolate is a slightly melted coffee cream and a warm hot chocolate is what you might drink after going swimming.
I’ll get my coat.