Lack of step-free access to train platforms

[MichelleClarke]

Is anyone else mortified by the lack of step-free access at most train stations in London?

How on earth does Transport for London expect parents, carers and wheelchair users to access trains without lifts or escalators in their train stations. It is absolutely awful.

I was taking the train in London with my very young baby and there was no step-free access from the platform to street- as I’ve found with so many tube and train stations in london. I asked a train attendant for his help as no one was around and I couldn’t believe it when he said no - in such a horrible abrupt manner I was too shocked to know what to do. I then asked a female station assistant who said she wasn’t allowed to help due to insurance reasons. It has taken me a while to dare to go out with my baby let alone on public transport and this has completely set me back. In the end another commuter helped me up the stairs but this has really knocked my confidence. I don’t understand how TFL can be so un-user friendly to wheelchair and pram users and then not offer an alternative solution.
This made me so angry!!! For a second, even though I was shattered afterwards, I reflected on the fact that I was able to do this but what about those who are in the same position and most importantly wheelchair users.

TFL needs to do better by making most of their stations step-free access to train platforms.

@Sideswiped

Unless things have changed since I last looked, you will only get assistance if you have booked it in advance. It's all kinds of wrong for those who genuinely cannot travel without such help. (DC2, now a adult, is severely visually impaired. They've been lucky that they haven't encountered jobsworths and so have been able to access help when travelling using trains / underground.)

Your child has a disability. The OP doesn't. She has a baby.

I really resent this mashing together of disabilities (which absolutely do deserve support) with carting around a small child (which any able bodied adult should be able to do with a bit of planning). It's offensive.

I know it's a shock trying to travel with babies. My tube station has 25 steps up to the platform. There is a lift but it's bloody slow so eventually I realised it was better to take a sling when my babies were tiny and an umbrella fold when older.

When you go out as a first time mum, it feels like you're navigating the world all over again from scratch. I get that. But you need to adapt to the world. You can't expect it to adapt to you.

I’m loving (NOT) the ableism on this thread. The fact is that if everyone with a child were using the trains every single day with children, things would change. As a percentage of people, the disabled are fewer and therefore do not have as much power to change systems more quickly. This is bolstered by, ‘oh well, it’s an old system. ‘ you can’t do it overnight’ ‘Too expensive.
You unwittingly lend your support to a system skewed toward those who can manage. And whilst transport remains inaccessible, so do job opportunities.

@Gilead

I’m loving (NOT) the ableism on this thread. The fact is that if everyone with a child were using the trains every single day with children, things would change. As a percentage of people, the disabled are fewer and therefore do not have as much power to change systems more quickly. This is bolstered by, ‘oh well, it’s an old system. ‘ you can’t do it overnight’ ‘Too expensive. You unwittingly lend your support to a system skewed toward those who can manage. And whilst transport remains inaccessible, so do job opportunities.

Definitely no ableism here, I'm a disabled transport user myself. I don't support the system and think it should never change, merely being realistic.

They are closing large parts of the Northern line for 5 months so hopefully will make it better. I agree, it makes it hard when you have baggage and even harder if you have a disability.

I know some of the tubes, trains and overgrounds are pretty archaic and are installing lifts to accommodate those who require step free access, which is great, but what I’m most appalled over is the attitude I’ve received from TfL staff on several occasions, when I’ve kindly asked if they can assist me with my pram/buggy.

A staff member at my closet overground station said to me ‘no’ when I asked for help and to ‘ask someone else’, then trailed back to their office, leaving me gobsmacked! After that encounter I remember wanting to go home and cancelling my plans with my LO. Luckily another commuter was happy to help.

It really wouldn’t hurt to offer some good old friendly customer service and to explain why they’re unable to assist rather than appear rude and insensitive, especially to a new time parent/mother. It can make someone feel so debilitated.

You're not wrong. My dad was a wheelchair user in London for many years. Buses were great, tubes were patchy, and for trains you have to book ahead for someone to put out a ramp and hope to god they remember to do it at your stop (my dad avoided trains unless he was going to their ultimate destination).

I've been there too, trying to navigate Victorian infrastructure with a baby, a toddler and a double buggy. Plan your journey, leave lots of time, slings, umbrella fold buggy, all stuff in one bag you can handle if you have to collapse the buggy, and ask for help where possible. People can be lovely, I once had a lady hold my baby the whole way on a packed and delayed train from Reading to Exeter so I could have the toddler on my lap. We were sitting in a seat a fellow passenger vacated for us, other passengers were keeping an eye on the double buggy folded up by the doors, and another passenger amused the toddler and gave him bits of dried mango.

In a real emergency, you can push a buggy straight into a black cab - I used to do it with a side-by-side double.

Thankfully the buggy years don't last forever.

It's not ablism to say that the system is to old and too expensive to change with any rapidity. Noone could afford the increase in fares to cover it. But everywhere in London is accessible by bus and walking London is undoubtedly one of the best ways to navigate the centre with or without a wheelchair.

Frankly with a small child, it's still really manageable. Years back now I had a lightweight stroller I could sling over my shoulder on the escalators. It really isnt hard.

If you want to look to improve quality of life for those with disabilities we ought to look at improving the poor quality of Mobility equipment available both to the NHS and in general. DS' wheelchair is heavy material and poorly designed.

Within a generation or so robotic exoskeletons could well remove the need for wheelchairs and much of the costly transportation adaptations. They would improve quality of life ginormously, everywhere. If we were putting the quantity of money that improving the transport would take into anything it should be the development and cost reduction of the next generation of mobility equipment.

I don't think anyone can expect station staff to help carry prams etc. Its not just "you" they would need to help. It's everyone else. And what about people with suitcases they can't manage? Do they help them? It would be a health and safety nightmare.
I once helped a lady with a buggy when I was a passenger and did my back in really badly. I was only in my early 30s. I don't help people anymore sadly because of that. I am self employed and couldn't work after that time for a week. Can't risk that again. If staff have bad backs they and the employer can't risk them doing themselves an injury helping people all day. Plus at smaller stations there might only be one staff member. So they can't keep leaving their post while helping people.
Improved accessibility is really the only option I think.

Thank you for all your valuable comments.

It is ridiculous how little step free access there is, and makes so many places inaccessible!

It's worthwhile to consider that not all parents/carers are able to carry their babies in a sling. Factors which may play a role include the baby being too big or the caregivers own physical health concerns.

I agree, things won't change overnight but TFL still needs to do alot more to improve the current situation. Their staff could at least help out where they can. In the meantime, thank God for our fellow kind commuters.

It's not ablism to say that the system is to old and too expensive to change with any rapidity. Noone could afford the increase in fares to cover it. But everywhere in London is accessible by bus and walking London is undoubtedly one of the best ways to navigate the centre with or without a wheelchair.
Two points: it is ableism when it’s followed by you are being unreasonable. If disabled people were the majority it would have been sorted.
As for your comment about navigating central London, even with a chair, it is not easy either and clearly demonstrates how little you know about different disabilities and the way town planning has an impact upon our lives.

I've walked/navigated/bused with a wheelchair most of central London between imperial war museum to granary square fountains and natural history museum to tower hill. I've navigated from Victoria station to Greenwich and back in a day in a wheelchair utilizing tube, bus, boat, DLR, for fun. I've walked and bused from most of London's main railway stations to most of London's main hospitals. I've also taken two bus loads of specials needs kids up to london on an outing on a few occasions. I can also navigate London based on proximity accessible toilets.

But no clearly I have no idea about navigating London with disabilities 🙄🤣🤣

I don't think anyone is equating needing to navigate with a baby to doing so if disabled. It's just both groups have a vested interest in step free access. I certainly haven't read that in this thread. Why the need for such aggressive responses @Gilead? Surely a united front would gain better traction?

Two points: it is ableism when it’s followed by you are being unreasonable. If disabled people were the majority it would have been sorted.

Keeping things in context, OP is not disabled.

It’s not a case of your experience, it’s the disabled person’s experience. Some people are able to navigate and use chairs more easily than others, manual wheelchairs take up a different space to electric wheelchairs. Why does your experience count for something but mine doesn’t?
(Born and bred in London although no longer there).

I'm sure it's been noted but the tube is over 150 years old in places. When it was designed, it was done for for the use of able bodied men. It never occurred to them that a woman with a pushchair would use it.

Because it's so old, making some stations step free is a huge and expensive task. One TfL doesn't have the resources for.

All new stations, such as those on the jubilee extension and DLR) are step free. TfL produces maps and tools to help you plan a step free journey. All buses in London are accessible so if you can't you the tube you can use the bus.

While it isn't perfect and isn't as accessible as some more modern systems - it does try.

@MichelleClarke

Thank you for all your valuable comments.

It is ridiculous how little step free access there is, and makes so many places inaccessible!

It's worthwhile to consider that not all parents/carers are able to carry their babies in a sling. Factors which may play a role include the baby being too big or the caregivers own physical health concerns.

I agree, things won't change overnight but TFL still needs to do alot more to improve the current situation. Their staff could at least help out where they can. In the meantime, thank God for our fellow kind commuters.

How would you suggest they sort it? How do they upgrade a 150 year old structure that is underground? Who pays for it? Why should they when the buses, taxis and dial a ride services on the surface cover those areas.

I'm sure the staff would love to have helped you, but their insurance won't cover them if they drop the buggy or hurt you or baby while doing it. Their unions won't let them take that risk either.

I live in London and regularly go up town with the buggy, I just plan step free routes.

@titchy

It's a largely Victorian infrastructure which needs billions and billions spending on it - not sure why you're surprised tbh. Though I sympathise. Though more sympathy to disabled passengers - you have the option of using a sling for example, or folding up the buggy and carrying baby while on escalators.

But - buses are much better! Easy access, fresher air and a view!

This 🤷🏻‍♀️

I live in the outer London suburbs with no tube or overground nearby. Network rail lines are even less likely to have step free access outside central London. One of the biggest issues for me is the huge gap between platform and train at some stations. Another issue is the lack of toilets at most stations.

@Chucklecheeks01

Thats great *@elelel*, what happens if you don't want to go to that specific station?

Tube stations are really close together. In most cases it's a short walk from one station to another; obviously not so great if you have a wheelchair but I thought most stations were accessible now. It's not a problem if you have a buggy like the OP though - just get the tube to the general area you want and then walk. Or get the bus. Or, in south London, the tram.

@RebeccaManderley

I live in the outer London suburbs with no tube or overground nearby. Network rail lines are even less likely to have step free access outside central London. One of the biggest issues for me is the huge gap between platform and train at some stations. Another issue is the lack of toilets at most stations.

I find most stations have step-free access but I don't know the suburban stations in London that well. Totally with you with the gap - I even struggle a bit on the curve at Waterloo station, it's HUGE. And lack of toilets. Or, more likely, they have them but refuse to open them because they won't pay cleaners. I've ranted on MN over the years about access to toilets generally, not just at stations.

Here you are OP: content.tfl.gov.uk/step-free-tube-guide-map.pdf

and it's worth noting that you can book assistance (ok you need to plan ahead and can't decide to do something spontaneously, but the service exists).

Where there are works being undertaken, step free access is being addressed. But you can't just pop a lift shaft in, or indeed alter victorian stations.

The irony is that many stations were equipped with lifts when they were built but subsequently lost them when stations became unstaffed and the original buildings demolished.

It's hard, disruptive and very expensive to change a Victorian infrastructure.
But that's not helpful for those that are excluded.
Ideally people who need step free access should be able to board a (free) shuttle bus to their nearest step free station. They could be like the buses you have at airports - lots of floor space and minimal seats.

I found travelling with a pushchair on the tube, you usually have to ask fellow travellers for help if needed - it's seldom offered.
I was taken aback initially on the Paris Metro to have people proactively grabbing my pushchair to help me every time, without anyone saying anything at all.

It's not just in London, our local station has a ramp on one side, but the access to the other platform is via stairs. To top it all the platform is low so there's a massive step between the train and the platform.