Pig heart transplant. would you take one?

[reesewithoutaspoon]

So in the news, American doctors have transplanted a genetically modified pigs heart into a man who is alive 3 days later.
Should we be messing with cross species transplantation? what about the potential for pig viruses to mutate into something that becomes transmissible human to human. Not sure if that's even a possibility, but you would have to be heavily immune supressed surely to tolerate a non human organ.
Sometimes I think just because we can doesn't mean we should. but I'm not in this guys situation and don't know what I would choose if I was.
Something about it just gives me the heebie jeebies,

We already use pig valves, pig skin has been used since the 1970’s both externally and orally.

These piglets are from modified eggs, so they are designed to be more suited for transplantation compared to a normal pigs heart.

My FIL has a pig heart valve. I agree there's something a bit weird about having the whole heart, but like pp says I imagine it will become normal over time.

I would hope the pigs were raised in good conditions living happy lives before they are used for spares and repairs.

If that happens then I don't see any difference between that and using human spare parts (which I'm all for, believe in presumed consent and don't believe relatives should be able to override the deceased wishes)

Or even eating a pig for bacon or belly pork or porcetta or pork chops or sausages or anything else we use them for - so long as they had a free range, happy life.

Funny enough I have less of a problem with this than those who decide to have a child to save a sick child and/or direct genetic modification of humans (unless its to remove disease or disability)

Any port in a storm, OP.

I imagine you'd probably take one too, in reality, given a few weeks to live and no other option.

If that happens then I don't see any difference between that and using human spare parts (which I'm all for, believe in presumed consent and don't believe relatives should be able to override the deceased wishes)

People aren’t farmed and then slaughtered for the purpose of organ donation.
I don’t see anything wrong with pig heart transplants or the slaughter of animals to save human life but it is a very different scenario.

No, but they are farmed and slaughtered and used as food - which is a life saving scenario if you think about it

Not sure I see the difference.

The key for me is the condition the pig is kept in before transplant 0 and preferably use the carcass for a hog roast

@Rabblesthecat

No, but they are farmed and slaughtered and used as food - which is a life saving scenario if you think about it

Not sure I see the difference.

The key for me is the condition the pig is kept in before transplant 0 and preferably use the carcass for a hog roast

People are not farmed and slaughtered for food

No but pigs are!

How is it worse to farm and slaughter them for a heart to be transplanted than for a heart to be stuffed with herbs and fruit and roasted for dinner!

I thought the ethics were interesting in that it is illegal to raise a chimp for this purpose but not to raise a pig. Presumably, a chimp's heart would be more compatible but socially unacceptable. Not sure how I feel about this.

it's not wntirely a new thing, is it?

pig's heart valves have been used for some time for heart repair.
this sounds even better as it's a better fit. and no other human has to die to make a heart transplant possible. I can imagine that would be difficult for the mental health of some.

A bit off topic but if some heart donor recipients are known to pick up on traits or interests or preferences of the deceased donor, what does that mean if your donor is a pig?

No I wouldn't.
But I wouldn't take an organ from a human either - I wouldn't donate or receive.

I also wonder how anyone who says they are a vegetarian or vegan could reconcile refusing to eat bacon but accepting a pig can be slaughtered so they can use bits of it's body.

@Seaweasel

I thought the ethics were interesting in that it is illegal to raise a chimp for this purpose but not to raise a pig. Presumably, a chimp's heart would be more compatible but socially unacceptable. Not sure how I feel about this.

I don't know that it would be more compatible- isn't a chimp smaller than an adult human? Would the heart be up to the task?

@Snugglepumpkin

No I wouldn't. But I wouldn't take an organ from a human either - I wouldn't donate or receive.

I also wonder how anyone who says they are a vegetarian or vegan could reconcile refusing to eat bacon but accepting a pig can be slaughtered so they can use bits of it's body.

Probably because you can live without bacon, but not without a heart.

I honestly don’t know. And I speak as someone who needs a heart transplant at some point in the future, and who has been told at one point in the past that I am ineligible for a transplant until a different intervention bought me some time.

Perhaps if in the future it became a mainstream alternative then yes, but as things currently stand no, I don’t think I would.

This man has been told he still only likely has a max of 6-9 months left to live, the only difference at the moment is that his heart is working for itself whereas he was previously on ECMO to keep him alive.

The one hope is that he will recover enough to be eligible for a human heart transplant which if that happens could be seen as a positive, But we are a very long way off from this being a viable alternative to human heart transplant and to it solving the organ shortage, so on that basis no, I wouldn’t want to just be bought a crumb of extra life.

But I’m not afraid of dying having had a cardiac arrest in the past, and I don’t believe in life at all cost.

Recently I watched an episode of surgeons on the BBC, where a man had a procedure to cure him of cancer which meant the removal of both his bladder and rectum and the insertion of two stoma’s. he would lose all that functionality as well as any sexual function. The treatment is considered so radical that around 20% of people refuse it and opt for the alternative instead.

I can hand on heart say that I wouldn’t go through a treatment like that, and would instead opt to go to Switzerland so that I was spared the drawn-out death from cancer.

Exactly @Snugglepumpkin. I would have thought this would be a complete none starter for vegetarians, vegans and people who don't eat pork for religious reasons. But apparently not .

I eat meat so obviously have no reason why I could refuse this, providing it is an established viable medical procedure of course. The number of pigs used for this is probably tiny compared with those bred for pork.

I am on the kidney transplant list and I would take one. I still feel ick about it but I am not overly thrilled about any of the options to be honest, just know it has to be done to save my life so I can be there for my small children. When you are very unwell, you do what you have to do to stay alive for those who need you. If it worked as well as human organs I would actually prefer the pig kidney, I wouldn’t have to spend my life feeling sad about the pigs death or grateful to the pig and it’s family. I do think the welfare standards will be higher than for meat (which I don’t eat).

Well, there are some radicals who refuse treatments that have been tested on animals.

MRC is regularly subject to protests etc from animal rights protesters, but at the end of the day many will opt for treatments that are going to better their own survival rates.

There absolutely will be vegans and vegetarians who will oppose this, and there will without a doubt be animal rights protests over this.

Everyone has their own ethical choices and in truth no-one is right or wrong.

i hate it when people say things like “if you were told you were going to die you’d think differently,” in the same way that people say “if you were told you couldn’t have children you would do anything,” the fact is that’s just not true. And different people have their own thresholds.

No I wouldn’t. It would go against my religious and ethical beliefs personally but I understand why many people would. If you eat bacon then you are not going to turn down a body part surely! To me, animals aren’t food nor do I believe I have the right to kill an animal for me to live. We are equal.

I think as a species we really need to stop messing with animals and acting like the superior species. Animals are not here for us, they are here with us. We need to stop our dangerous exploitation of them if we hope to survive as a species. Most pandemics arise due to the poor conditions we farm animals in. The environment and climate crisis are strongly impacted by factory farming. This is not about blaming an individual but highlighting the need for systemic changes.

@Rabblesthecat

No, but they are farmed and slaughtered and used as food - which is a life saving scenario if you think about it

Not sure I see the difference.

The key for me is the condition the pig is kept in before transplant 0 and preferably use the carcass for a hog roast

I wouldn’t say that’s a ‘life saving’ scenario. You can live without pork.

If it was the only viable option maybe. Did anyone else see Huw Edwards face at the end of the news report 😂. He’s normally completely poked faced.

I don’t know / I think I probably would be the ethics of using pig is bothering me most. Pigs are lovely intelligent creatures and breeding them to remove their hearts to keep humans alive me feel uncomfortable

But anyway I’m that vegetarian who could easily reconcile myself with this. Same as if I was on a desert island and there was absolutely no food except meat, I would eat meat.

Lots of people might say they wouldn’t/they couldn’t for ethical reasons but I think the number of people who would actually starve to death while holding a burger are in the tiny tiny minority. Almost everyone values their own life above an animal’s life. Hardly anybody holds their principles higher than their life.

*poker

I would. Not sure I could eat the rest of the same pig afterwards because it'd be like eating me. But I guess pigs bred for sausages and pigs bred for human compatible heart surgery are probably different.

Actually on second thoughts I would eat my own heart pig. Best to use the whole of the animal of you're going to sacrifice it anyway.

The real question is what special powers do you get with a pig heart?