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Original poster

What is middle class

52 replies

monotonousmum · 10/01/2022 12:48

Of the back of a childcare thread, where a lot of the feeling seemed to be that middle class people want free childcare paid by taxpayer so they can have nice holidays...

What is middle class??

Is it someone who doesn't have to claim benefits? Works but doesn't really need to? One working parent family and still doing OK? Can afford nice holidays? Could afford nice holidays if it wasn't for the childcare bill?

I'm genuinely confused as to what it is nowadays. I'd consider myself working class, as I have to work to survive. I have a decently paid job though and we have never had to claim any benefits - although it would only take a few months out of work to change this.
But this decently paid job isn't crazy money. We still have to budget, don't have fancy holidays, save a modest amount each month (which usually gets spent on Christmas etc). We have some luxuries that we could live without (takeaways, sky sports).

But the childcare thread has left me genuinely confused. I don't really care what I am either way, life is what it is. But have the way we use these terms changed?

OP posts:
DropYourSword · 10/01/2022 12:57

Why does anybody care about this?
Seriously, what does it matter.
Why is this a thing still??

Camomila · 10/01/2022 12:59

I care because the UK has low rates of social mobility.

Amrapaali · 10/01/2022 13:01

Agree- it is so tedious. I have never known ANY other country obsess so much over class. And believe me, I have lived in and travelled around quite a few of them.

Itshothothot · 10/01/2022 13:01

Middle class to me is someone who has a good skilled job, has had a good education etc

Has a nice house in a up market, desirable area.

Minds their Ps and Qs etc. no slang words, swearing, common traits etc

ArblemarchTFruitbat · 10/01/2022 13:01

I think class distinctions have become blurred because having a traditionally middle-class job no longer (automatically) means you earn more than someone in a traditionally working class job.

Class has always been more complicated than income - education, background, vocabulary and tastes can all place someone in a particular class.

But I don't think class is helpful in today's society - if it ever was - and we should work towards greater equality of wealth and opportunity rather than trying to pigeonhole people into class slots.

Amrapaali · 10/01/2022 13:03

In that case @Camomila isnt it simpler to think of ourselves as haves and have-nots? And not pigeon hole people into all classes with their attendant social rituals and markers?

Original poster
monotonousmum · 10/01/2022 13:03

I don't know why it's still a thing. That's kind of why I'm confused.

The whole 'middle class people shouldn't get free stuff funded by the taxpayer' message had me wondering how that would even be defined anyway.

I've also never been a fan of very obvious free stuff based on income anyway (for children) - I think it creates further divides. E.G. free dinners for low income families at my school were paid for by 'dinner tickets', so it was always very obvious who the poor kids were and led to bullying in some cases.

I don't have the answers on how to make things like that better though, because obviously some families do need extra support.

OP posts:
ShirleyPhallus · 10/01/2022 13:04

Why is mumsnet so obsessed with class is the bigger question? Almost daily threads atm with questions on class.

AlexaShutUp · 10/01/2022 13:04

Grin at no swearing! Lots of very middle class people I know swear an awful lot!

sofato5miles · 10/01/2022 13:06

I am v MC and swear like an dissolute sailor

Itshothothot · 10/01/2022 13:08

What makes you think you’re middle class?

I’ve no idea what class I am!

TheBeesKnee · 10/01/2022 13:09

Class is a really complicated topic. The middle class is squeezed these days and sub dividend even further.

Generally it's to do with your upbringing, education and job. So professional job, house in the suburbs etc. The way you speak and your vocabulary also indicates your class.

mewkins · 10/01/2022 13:20

Hi OP, I think it is really unhelpful to try to categorise a massively diverse population by class. I read and wrote a lot about class and social division at university, and previously at a-level and even 25 years ago things were changing and it was apparent there were a thousand different ways to slice the cake.

Previously there were easier ways of categorising (land, business or property owners etc, vs. 'the workers'). I think it is pretty much impossible now. I think the idea of social class pretty much disappeared from social policy a long time ago. So while it is really important to help the disadvantaged in society, this is generally done using income, benefits etc as indicators. And the point is to help those at a disadvantage be able to move towards a place where they have opportunities and their children have opportunities.

This forum is strange in that people talk about class a LOT. I don't think this happens in real life. I think it is great to have aims and goals. I'm not so sure that a healthy goal is to pass as middle class or 'old money'.

mewkins · 10/01/2022 13:23

@Camomila

I care because the UK has low rates of social mobility.
I'm interested to read more on this. In my head there was a lot more social mobility a few decades ago. I think taking away free university education has been a huge step backwards. I hope social mobility will start to increase again.
LizBennet · 10/01/2022 13:26

The class obsession on here is tedious. I've been here years and I've started noticing it more because of how often other sites are absolutely taking the piss about how many times it's mentioned here.

Camomila · 10/01/2022 13:30

Hi mewkins The "State of the Nation" social mobility reports are very accessible and free to download.

There is also free to download stuff on the Joseph Rowntree foundation website.

I really like Bourdieu's work on social capital, I think you can read excerpts of some of his books for free on google books.

(I did my MSc dissertation on social mobility, so love chatting about social class type stuff).

Echobelly · 10/01/2022 13:34

I think whatever people want it to be!

You get types like David Cameron and chums who seem to think middle class is multiple homes, kids in private schools, trust funds. You get people who feel that it's anyone who owns a home (and frankly these days it might be true). And everyone middle class seems to claim they're working class, honest, my grandad was a milkman etc Grin

ANameChangeAgain · 10/01/2022 13:37

It really doesn't exist in real life any more. Despite what is a popular belief we do have social mobility. Those educated in state schools marry those educated privately with no snorts or raised eyebrows any more. Those born in poverty can die a millionaire, and visa versa.

EmmaPaella · 10/01/2022 13:38

Middle class people are anyone who does anything complaint-worthy on MN, as far as I can tell.

For me personally though (and everyone I know in RL) that doesn't include claiming free childcare you are entitled to (which exists to help you go to work).

mewkins · 10/01/2022 13:40

@Camomila

Hi mewkins The "State of the Nation" social mobility reports are very accessible and free to download.

There is also free to download stuff on the Joseph Rowntree foundation website.

I really like Bourdieu's work on social capital, I think you can read excerpts of some of his books for free on google books.

(I did my MSc dissertation on social mobility, so love chatting about social class type stuff).

Brilliant, thank you! I will have a read. It is depressing to think that we are going backwards.

I love a class discussion too. I sat in a classroom in 1995 having these discussions and it is so good to revisit. Even then we were anomalies. So called 'working class' eastenders who were all told we would go to university. I hope that still happens now.

I get depressed that class discussions on here all focus on what you can get out of society and 'passing' for middle class etc rather than what you can achieve in terms of gaining knowledge and giving back to society in whatever way you can.

Original poster
monotonousmum · 10/01/2022 13:45

I didn't mean this to come across as me thinking I'm/wanting to be middle class. I grew up in council housing (and think there should be a lot more council housing!). But if I wasn't paying £800+ per month for childcare then I would be able to afford nice holidays (or repay my mortgage quicker).

I don't buy into the class thing at all. I don't get how it can be used as an indicator of anything.

OP posts:
haba · 10/01/2022 13:45

Please do define "works but doesn't need to". My family would have been utterly screwed when DH became disabled if I hadn't kept my career up. He was on six figures (natch, this is MN) so we could have been comfortable without me working, but in reality how would I have found well paid work if I'd stopped work after marriage?.

Spidey66 · 10/01/2022 13:47

It’s only a thing on MN

haba · 10/01/2022 13:48

And income is not linked to class, nor vice versa.

ivykaty44 · 10/01/2022 13:51

Middle class is a household income of £100k + per annum and managerial type jobs with salary & drive two cars, lives with a dishwasher

Never shops at Tesco 😬😉