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Original poster

Colston statue topplers acquitted

409 replies

SerendipityJane · 05/01/2022 16:43

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-59727161

Four people accused of illegally removing a statue of Edward Colston have been cleared of criminal damage.

Sage Willoughby, 22, Rhian Graham, 30, Milo Ponsford, 26, and Jake Skuse, 33, were charged after a monument to the 17th Century slave trader was pulled down and then thrown into the harbourside in Bristol last June.

It happened during a Black Lives Matter protest in the city.

A jury at Bristol Crown Court found them all not guilty.

During a highly publicised trial, the court heard that the statue was ripped down before being thrown into the harbour during a wave of protests triggered by the murder of African-American George Floyd by a white police officer.

The four defendants, together with "others unknown", were accusing of damaging the Colston statue and plinth of a value unknown without lawful excuse.

During the trial, Mr Skuse said he took part in rolling the statue to the docks to stage a symbolic "sentencing" of the slave trader.

OP posts:
Original poster
SerendipityJane · 07/01/2022 19:16

Thanks to the Coltson four I now know what the word’s regicide and betteridge mean

Betteridge has saved me countless woman-hours (and dosh). Especially walking past newsstands with the Express or Mail on display.

Does "regicide" apply to any death, or just a King being killed ? Because my understanding is Charles I execution was lawful and therefore not "regicide".

Alternatively, Timothy Evans was murdered, not executed.

Or is this an(other) heads we win, tails you lose look at "justice" ?

OP posts:
hangonamo · 07/01/2022 23:27

@peaceanddove

Weren't they studying at Bristol University which was initially funded by monies from the slave trade? Amusing.
Not according to the papers, no.
hangonamo · 07/01/2022 23:29

@peaceanddove

Really should be the Colston 4x4 as tribute to their oh so terribly middle class credentials.
Where do you get that they're middle class?
Thatldo · 08/01/2022 08:35

Most,if not all the people who are outraged by the acquittal of the 4 statue removers,have probably never heard of Colston before.They didnt even know the statue was in Bristol.The reason they are upset,is that 4 "hippies" with alternative worldviews have won the legal case.And of course for the rightwing brigade like Rees-mogg,Johnson et al, it is a welcome distraction from their woeful government.

NuNameNuMe · 08/01/2022 08:39

Maybe the people who are upset by this, could fund a replacement. I propose one honouring the entrepreneurial people smuggler, bravely plying their trade between Calais and Dover. Same energy right?

Original poster
SerendipityJane · 08/01/2022 08:45

@NuNameNuMe

Maybe the people who are upset by this, could fund a replacement. I propose one honouring the entrepreneurial people smuggler, bravely plying their trade between Calais and Dover. Same energy right?
Indeed.

The phrase "by public subscription" should become commonplace again. You want a statue ? You pay for it.

In fact it would have given this case an interesting twist if the statue was clearly private property on public display, rather than nominally publicly owned.

Of course this is all very unlikely to happen. I could see any campaign to raise money to install a fresh statue of Colston raising 2 1/2p, a drachma, and an Everton mint.

OP posts:
JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/01/2022 09:18

Of course this is all very unlikely to happen. I could see any campaign to raise money to install a fresh statue of Colston raising 2 1/2p, a drachma, and an Everton mint.

A Euro and an air machine token for the local independent garage

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 08/01/2022 09:57

@peaceanddove

Weren't they studying at Bristol University which was initially funded by monies from the slave trade? Amusing.
So... did you just make that up because you read that it happened in Bristol? Grin
peaceanddove · 08/01/2022 10:03

No, I was sure I heard it on a radio discussion but admittedly wasn't listening all that intently.

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 08/01/2022 10:44

Mmhm...

Anyway as a pp has said, even if they had attended Bristol University, it wouldn't mean they're all awful hypocrites. Unless the primary purpose of Bristol University were to celebrate slavery, in which case you would have a point (if they had studied there, which - as we've established - they didn't). Amusing.

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 08/01/2022 10:52

@JuneOsborne

Ah, but it's their time now. The youth do this stuff (have done for decades) and it causes change. In the 60s all the marches, the huge social changes, free love, the movements were the youth. It's all been a bit quiet really since. It's good to see young people shaking us up.

It's like people are waking up too. We've had a Tory government for ages now and I'm amazed that there isn't more shit like this going on.

I did drive past some graffiti the other day. It said: join a union. Scruffy, not art graffiti, and I was marvelling that maybe the youth are going to rescue us!

Anyway, I also really like this post.

Older generation: "OK kids, getting to the point where you're going to inherit the planet from us. Just a few small things need fixing, like the climate crisis, racism, poverty, the NHS and so on. Better get started. NO, don't change that, we like it! And not like that, you have to have MEETINGS first!"

limitedperiodonly · 08/01/2022 18:02

It was on R4 Any Answers today which is my favourite phone-in for all the wrong reasons. The penultimate caller was brilliant. He didn't listen to much of the discussion but he knew what was what and was going to treat us to his wisdom.

For example, he didn't like the statue of Karl Marx - the one in Highgate Cemetery not the monument to retail in Oxford Street - but if he did knock it down, which he wouldn't and he wanted to make that clear, he'd deserve jail time. Possibly with hard labour if they were feeling generous.

I swear there are only two questions the producers on Any Answers ask people: 1. Are you an idiot? 2. Have you been contaminated by any knowledge of this issue at all?

If the answers are no they let them go. They're already wound up.

In 2020 when Britain was under the first lockdown with people dropping like flies and no vaccine Any Answers had a compassionate and intelligent debate between two elderly men. One said he deserved NHS intensive care because he still had much to give and explained his value to society. The other said though he'd prefer his place to go to a young person so they could fulfill the happy life he had enjoyed.

I couldn't make a judgement between either. Both were right and it was such an informed and courteous debate between two people who had clearly listened to all the issues unlike some other people.

I imagine there was an after-show inquest and the researcher who let them on was told that wasn't what radio discussion programmes were about and summarily dismissed.

stairway · 08/01/2022 18:04

Younger generation are also much easier to influence though. Every generation thinks it’s the first to have sex and change the world and then you get older and much more cynical.

limitedperiodonly · 08/01/2022 18:04

I mean the answers should be Yes and No. I'd fail at the first hurdle for getting on Any Answers.

limitedperiodonly · 08/01/2022 21:19

Would anyone who thinks this is a bad decision explain why jury trials are a bad idea?

CatsArePeople · 08/01/2022 22:24

Like it or not... it was a historical moment.

Blossomtoes · 08/01/2022 22:28

@limitedperiodonly

Would anyone who thinks this is a bad decision explain why jury trials are a bad idea?
Jury trials aren’t a bad idea but sometimes juries get it wrong. This one did. We all watched the criminal damage being done on our TV screens. It’s beyond belief that, based on the facts, the jury reached this verdict. It reminds me of Alice told the White Queen, “One can't believe impossible things,” the Queen answered, in a huff, “I daresay you haven't had much practice…. When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast”?
CatsArePeople · 08/01/2022 22:40

Jury trials aren’t a bad idea but sometimes juries get it wrong. This one did. We all watched the criminal damage being done on our TV screens. It’s beyond belief that, based on the facts, the jury reached this verdict.

It's criminal damage, not murder. Anyway the object was despised and embarrassing, especially given its location. Should have been shifted long time ago, not waiting until shit hit the fan.

timshortfforthalia · 08/01/2022 23:48

It’s beyond belief that, based on the facts, the jury reached this verdict.

The jury sat through the case. You watched it on TV. I'd hazard a guess that their understanding of the facts far surpasses yours.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 09/01/2022 02:46

The jury sat through the case. You watched it on TV. I'd hazard a guess that their understanding of the facts far surpasses yours
This

NoNotMeNoSiree · 09/01/2022 02:54

Should have been shifted long time ago, not waiting until shit hit the fan.
Agreed
Must admit, didn't know much about him until started reading up after the statue was toppled.
Mass murderer, just because he didn't do it all himself, he sat and oversaw it all happening, how is that not as much reviled?!
People I think can see if anyone was to put up a Jimmy Saville or a Hitler statue, and expected worship, there'd be outrage on behalf of the victims.
Why is it not always the same if the victims are black?

VikingOnTheFridge · 09/01/2022 09:27

Jury trials aren’t a bad idea but sometimes juries get it wrong. This one did. We all watched the criminal damage being done on our TV screens. It’s beyond belief that, based on the facts, the jury reached this verdict. It reminds me ofAlice told the White Queen, “One can't believe impossible things,” the Queen answered, in a huff, “I daresay you haven't had much practice…. When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast”?

Have you considered the possibility that maybe you find it beyond belief because you don't actually understand the law and system you're complaining about and you didn't hear all the evidence?

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 09/01/2022 10:09

People I think can see if anyone was to put up a Jimmy Saville or a Hitler statue, and expected worship, there'd be outrage on behalf of the victims.

There was a statue of Saville, in Glasgow. It was removed after the allegations came out, and nobody complained that it was 'erasing history' (like it or not, Saville is a key part of a very unsavoury chapter in UK history). The people who defaced his memorial plaque outside his home were also never prosecuted.

(For clarity, I'm absolutely NOT complaining about the above!)

stairway · 09/01/2022 11:59

I think the difference between Saville and Colston is that his victims are still alive , same with Hitler, the crimes are not historical yet imo. A lot of historical figures have done awful things and if we start describing historical items as a hate crimes I think we might lose a good chunk of visual history in towns and cities.

limitedperiodonly · 09/01/2022 12:16

@Blossomtoes this explains it better than I could.

It's long but clear and has lots of excellent points, my favourite being: "Many people have mistaken the rule of law with 'something I don't agree with'."

In my opinion anyone who finds themselves on the wrong side of an argument with the likes of Boris Johnson, Little Grant Shapps and the bewigged curiosity MP Michael Fabricant can't be all wrong.

And in my non-legal opinion I believe jury trials to be a broadly good thing. What would you suggest would be fairer than 12 of your peers randomly selected from the electoral roll to sit in judgement on you rather than someone appointed to the position?