Some people have no idea

[Isitschool]

It sometimes feels that some people have no idea what it's like for people living in poverty or a very low income.

There has been some discussions about fly tipping. I said some people don't drive so can't get to the tip. Or they can't afford to have it taken away. My council charges 30.00 pounds to have a fridge removed . Or it's 20.00 for up to 4 items such as a bed frame, chest of drawers ect. That does not seem like alot of money, But there are people out there that are having to choose weather they put money on their gas or eat . If they are in that position they clearly can't afford to have broken furniture taken away .

The replies from people were . If they can afford new furniture then they can afford to have it taken away or if they get a new fridge from curry's you pay a bit extra to have the old ones removed. Do people honestly think that people who can barely afford to eat are buying brand new fridge and furniture.

I'm just no way saying fly tipping is OK. Of course its not but I do understand why it happens. I just think it's sad how many people don't understand what its like to live on a shoe string

@WeatherwaxOn

A relative of mine died 2 years ago and I had to ear out their property. I wasn't working at the time so had no disposable income . Property was in a block of flats (no lift) and owned, some flats were rented from the council. Council website suggested they would collect up to 4 bulky items for £30, so I contacted them. They came and looked and decided that they couldn't carry them downstairs and that was it. I couldn't do it myself. Had to enlist a friend to help me saw up/destroy items so we could take the bits out tothe rubbish bins.

If relative had been a council tenant they would cleared the property for free.

The cost would have fallen to the estate If it was owned then why should it be free?

@PhoenixIsFlying if it's a sprung mattress, you can cut it open, remove the springs, and the scrap man will take them. Then the fabric can go week by week in the bin. It's not quick tho, and we seem to be I the minority at having 3/4 of the bin empty each week.

Tbf the people fly tipping down lanes aren't the people without cars or vans.

Usually they are dodgy commercial waste removal people or kitchen fitters, gardeners etc. Who tell the householder they will dispose of the waste but don't want to pay to use the proper waste disposal facilities.

The council tip is only free or cheap for domestic users.

Our local council has always charged to collect large items:

£20 for up to two items
£5 for each additional item, up to a maximum of 12 items per order. 

Councils in previous areas we have lived in have always charged, as has my late MIL's council.

Loads of people post on local Facebook pages asking local scrap merchants to collect scrap for free. The only white goods item they won't collect is fridges as they have to be disposed of safely. This gets pointed out on every post where a fridge collection is requested. The poster gets told to contact the council.

Totally agree with you op. If the stuff is in usable condition, charities, like the BHF, will collect it

I put my broken old tumble dryer on Facebook free for scrap metal. Had someone come and collect it a couple of hours later.

I'm in Ireland. We are still in the EU. I haven't read all the replies but I am shocked that WEEE does not seem to apply (Waste Electronic & Electrical Equipment regulations)

If you buy a new fridge (or any other appliance with a plug or a battery) you pay a little towards WEEE - under EU directives dating back a decade or more. So, if your fridge costs 199 (or 2,999) then the price already includes a WEEE charge. You are effectively paying for end of life disposal for your appliance. When your new fridge is delivered, the seller must be prepared to take away your old appliance on a like for like basis. In reality, the driver would probably take away your an additional electrical appliance too, or more if you slip him/her a fiver. Or, you can take them to a council site yourself and place them with other WEEE items for no charge. Anyone selling batteries must have a box in the shop where they will accept spent batteries.

Every couple of years our local council organises a large skip in our area. Residents are free to bring large items of furniture/electrical items for disposal. You must show the leaflet that came through your door, this is to discourage landlords/business people taking advantage of the scheme. People living locally are very good at helping out neighbours who might struggle with getting an item into the skip. It is very well managed by council who might have 2 skips in place at the beginning of the day and these are removed and replaced throughout the day on a rolling basis.

Fly-tipping is utterly disgusting. It is an offence here to use a non-registered waste collector. We don't generate much waste ourselves, we put our domestic waste wheelie-bin out for collection maybe 4 or 5 times per year and we pay for it each time it is lifted by a private operator, very economical for us. We shop carefully and frugally and try to avoid any food/packaging waste. Fly tipping puts farm animals and crops in danger.

We challenged someone who was about to drive off a beach (yeah, disgusting to drive onto a beach too) who was about to drive off leaving all the detritus from their extended family barbecue behind them. They had bagged it all neatly into about 6 small plastic bags but were going to leave it all there. They were all sat into their SUV waiting for one of the children. DH was brave, went up and spoke to the driver and said he hoped they weren't forgetting their rubbish. A couple of minutes later the driver got out and put the plastic bags into the boot and they drove off. We didn't have a phone with us but I had scratched their registration number onto a beach pebble. Luckily, as when they drove away we saw that they had left their disposable BBQ tray with hot coals behind. Utter idiots. DH used DCs bucket to pour sea water on it and then fill it with sand. Cold sea water was added several more times. We had no way to dispose of it. We didn't have a car with us. DH called to the council office the next day and made a formal complaint to the litter warden and said we would both be willing to take days off work to ensure these guy were prosecuted through the Court system. The guy ended up having to pay quite a large fine, almost 200, that was one expensive BBQ for him but the day could have ended with devastating injuries to anyone, animals or birds on the beach that day.

I agree. We still have rag and bone men here..anything left outside disappears. I assume the council I will make that impossible soon. Our council charge a fortune too.

Back in the 1960s my mother and her teenage siblings chopped up their piano (with their parents consent and because they couldn't give it away) into small pieces so it could be chucked into the rubbish chute in their block of flats. If there's a will there's a way to dismantle most furniture and other items small enough to dispose of. Even a mattress - someone in our street has had 2 mattresses and bed bases in their front garden since November. They do have a car but don't seem to realise that if they fold the seats down in it, and fold up the mattress they could take it to the tip themselves. If they were physically capable of getting it out into the garden they're able to take it to the tip in their car!

And also, how often is a mattress replaced? I bought a new bed last year, replacing one I'd had for 10+ years. If I didn't have a car and couldn't afford to pay for the disposal, I'd wait to replace it until I had that extra £30.

Again, fridges I understand are different, which is why I'd be happy for the council to collect for free. However people needlessly replacing other items without first considering how to dispose of what they've got (or having transport to take it to the tip but being too lazy or whatever to do so), why should any of us facilitate that?

@Grenlei

Back in the 1960s my mother and her teenage siblings chopped up their piano (with their parents consent and because they couldn't give it away) into small pieces so it could be chucked into the rubbish chute in their block of flats. If there's a will there's a way to dismantle most furniture and other items small enough to dispose of. Even a mattress - someone in our street has had 2 mattresses and bed bases in their front garden since November. They do have a car but don't seem to realise that if they fold the seats down in it, and fold up the mattress they could take it to the tip themselves. If they were physically capable of getting it out into the garden they're able to take it to the tip in their car!

And also, how often is a mattress replaced? I bought a new bed last year, replacing one I'd had for 10+ years. If I didn't have a car and couldn't afford to pay for the disposal, I'd wait to replace it until I had that extra £30.

Again, fridges I understand are different, which is why I'd be happy for the council to collect for free. However people needlessly replacing other items without first considering how to dispose of what they've got (or having transport to take it to the tip but being too lazy or whatever to do so), why should any of us facilitate that?

People living I'm poverty don't needlessly replace things. And if they do replace its likely they needed it. And often replaced with free/2nd hand stuff.

Fly tippers around here usually don't just dump one item, but masses of kids toys and clothing that could easily have been freecycled/given to charities. I can understand a fridge/mattress left in a back garden, but flytipping is just down to laziness and a lack of responsibility. And unfortunately, those people who are lazy and lack responsibility are more likely to be poor because those traits are holding them back in the first place.

A lot of people I can think of who would probably be classed as living in poverty (if you base that on not being able to spare the cash for a council large item collection/ disposal by a waste contractor) do buy or acquire things when they don't really need to though - the example of the bed I gave upthread was a good example. A single broken slat is no reason to replace a bed, I know I've bodged many a repair to bedslats over the years. It doesn't matter if the replacement is free or on an instalment plan, if it's a furniture item which 'works' but isn't ideal and you can't pay the cost of removal or cut it up and put it in the bin then wait to replace it until you can afford to pay someone to take it away.

Again, fridges, washing machines, cookers are a little different of course - if they're broken they're broken and you need a replacement but then scrappers take anything other than fridges.

Flytipping outside charity shops is an issue too, it seems to have got a little better since Covid but I still see piles of bags, kids toys etc stacked outside our local charity shops on a Sunday, despite clear notices telling you not to leave anything there!

@Grenlei

Flytipping outside charity shops is an issue too, it seems to have got a little better since Covid but I still see piles of bags, kids toys etc stacked outside our local charity shops on a Sunday, despite clear notices telling you not to leave anything there!

This gets my goat. There's another thread running regarding de-cluttering and so many posters said to leave their clutter outside a charity shop. Most charity shops have clear signs pleading with folk to stop dumping outside their shops.

As to fly tipping, there is a beauty spot nearby which is forever having house clearance, building rubble, landscaping waste and garden waste dumped. Despite calls from the council to say that offenders will be prosecuted the detritus continues.

Our council used to have a large rubbish truck that would call around , to various local places where you could drive to , between certain times, to dispose of household crap.
This ended a few years ago due to cutbacks and so fly tipping increased.

Our local tip is fantastic and recycles most of what it gets. However, due to the pandemic, you can only go by appointment.
Commercial vehicles are now being charged... so even more fly tipping.

I have noticed more black sacks being dumped on verges and roadsides around here.

Not sure what the solution is.

Other countries seem to have much better solutions , however, these services come with a hefty cost to the taxpayers. We , as a nation , do not want to pay taxes like Scandinavian or European countries. So what to do.

People who have no spare money, and no access to a vehicle , can only dump outside their properties, in the hope that it gets cleared.

To those people suggesting Freecycle, have another think.
If my mid-eighties , frail mum , who lives in a HA flat, on a state pension needs to get rid of a mattress, what is she to do?
Yes, we'll drive 200 miles to sort it out. What if we couldn't? What if we didn't exist and she was on her own? She doesn't have a computer or a smartphone or broadband and she couldn't afford it either.

Maybe we need to think the unthinkable and raise taxes? ( hearing the sound of a lead balloon!)

@DroopyClematis

The bit you said about tax going up in order to help. Surely if the council could put something in place that can help everyone. It would not make a massive difference to the cost. As they end up having to clear the fly tipping anyway

@ChristmasCatBells

Slightly off topic but people flytip near me but they have driven to the Country roads to dump the stuff so I don't understand why they don't just drive to the recycling/waste centre. Agree that people can find it difficult to afford the fee.

I was thinking the same - obviously someone with a sofa in their garden is different (there was actually a family on rich house poor house where the 'rich' family chopped up furniture that had been in the front garden of the poor house for months and carried it to the tip between them before they left)

but round by me all the fly tipping is either in the local business park or the nearest green space, neither of which are close enough to drag a fridge/bedframe too on foot. So if they've gone to the effort to load it into their car and dump it somewhere in the middle of night I don't see why they couldn't have taken it to the tip, which is free, not far away, and open in the day time to early evening! It would be more convenient, surely. TBH I think lots of the fly tipping round here is by businesses who charge less than the council to take stuff away for people and then dump it.

TBH the one thing I've learnt from mumsnet is how incapable a huge amount of people are at empathising with others/putting themselves in others shoes/trying to envisage something different to their own life. It's not a poor/rich thing, it's a personality thing. So many people who opine that 'surely everyone washes their towels every day,' or 'But why wouldn't you just tell the abusive husband to fuck off.' I've even seen people picking holes in other people's posts because 'It wasn't raining here today,' when the OP could have been living anywhere in the world! A lot of people seem to find it impossible to envisage anyone living a life that differs even slightly to their own, which is why you get the stupid comments.

My local council allows you to dispose of one sheet of plasterboard up to a certain size free of charge. A friend couldn't fit it in he car so broke it in half and took it to the dump. The jobsworth there told her she had to pay for the 'second' sheet, despite it being obvious it had been broken. She ended up getting rid of half and going back the next day with the other half.