Why have things changed so much (relationships)?

[NewUser2022]

Genuine question. Not being judgy but would love to know why!

When I got married, 35 years ago, no one lived together before being married (or very few.) It was called 'living in sin' if you did.
Because of circumstances, I had to end the lease on my house and move in with my fiance for a few weeks before our wedding. My parents were ashamed and didn't even like telling people.

I know this is hard to believe.

But now, the pendulum has gone the other way.

None of my friends sons or daughters get engaged while living apart in their own places, then marry. They all live together and then an engagement and wedding (might) follow at some point, even after a child arrives.

If you are under 55, you might not be aware of how dramatically things have changed over 30 years.

But what I'm asking is why?

Why does no one live separately any more and then buy/move in once they are engaged or married?

Is it really all about try before you buy, as well as not placing any value on marriage any more?

My previous relationship was absolutely brilliant when we lived apart, we moved in together 2 years down the line and I left him within 3 months. He became a lazy man child who was expected me to mother him and have dinner on the table every night, all the washing done and a spotless house despite us both working full time. Thank fuck I didn't marry him before discovering that!

@NewUser2022

Before anyone else jumps in read y 2nd sentence.

I am not judging.

I want to now why younger people would never do what we oldies did which was date for a while, get engaged and live apart, then marry.

Because most people then married younger, and didn’t live apart even from their parents until marriage. Young women in particular could often not rent or get mortgages on their own. The flip side is that house prices were much lower and normally based on one income, so young people in the sixties, seventies and eighties could afford to buy or rent somewhere together quite early in life - m parents married at 24 and bought their first flat at the same time, which cost them 1.2 times my dad’s single income!

Whereas these days more young people go away to university or college, have jobs, and live independently from their parents, largely because they have to be more mobile in the job market; and they normally live in rented accommodation or house shares for up to ten years or more before they couple up. Then housing is so expensive that you normally need a double income to rent together or buy before you even start thinking about a wedding. In the South East nowadays you often need 4 x a double income, plus around 60k in deposit, to even buy a modest 2-bed flat.

Aren’t you aware of all of these changes? Since you’ve been around for a while?

Love this post -thank you .

I would have been married for 34 years this year and just about all of my friends and colleagues lived together before we got married, it was the norm rather than the exception.

When I got married, 35 years ago, no one lived together before being married (or very few.) It was called 'living in sin' if you did.

I got married for the first time 30 years ago. Loads of people I knew lived together. It wasn’t considered that remarkable. Living in sin was a phrase I had heard but it wasn’t generally used to describe couples living together. I don’t really recognise what you’re describing here.

@HeadNorth

Divorce rate increased rapidly from late 70s/80s. When I was at school in the 70s it was unusual to have a divorced parent, now it is entirely normal. With so many people experiencing divorce as children, no wonder they are more cautious about committing to marriage. My parents are divorced, of course I wanted to live with my husband before I married him, living through a divorce is hell.

The Boomer generation was when divorce became normal and killed off marriage being taken seriously. People get married more for the wedding day now.

I got married in early 1980s without living together with my fiance. I was in an affluent area of the SE. I did stay with him on weekends as I was at university during the week but often went back to my home town for the weekend. My DPs knew I stayed with him at his house but they would not allow him to stay with me at home ever, so we never slept together at my parents home until after we were married. They were very old-fashioned despite not being particularly religous.

I did have friends that lived together before marriage but I also had a friend who got pregnant very young and was 'persuaded' to marry before the baby was born. It was still frowned upon to have a baby outside of marriage and her father thought it would bring shame on the family. Again they were not religious, just traditional. Most of my friends married before permanently leaving home (many met their DHs at uni and married before setting up home together).

I think university and relatedly, (mixed) house sharing has a lot to do with it too.
If you have already lived away from your parents with a wide variety of people your own age by the time you are considering marriage (even in different rooms) then "moving in" isn't a big deal in quite as many ways as it used to be - you have already been out from under your parent's gaze (eg: possibly with a partner staying over!!!), chatting over breakfast/just out of the shower with people of the gender you are attracted to (the immodesty!!), etc.

@LondonWolf Maybe those few years difference made it very different? There is a post from @Plantstrees where her experience was identical to mine.

Me and my now DH stayed with my parents a few weeks before our wedding (sorting out arrangements as we lived long-distance from them.) We were not allowed to share a room. My fiance had to sleep on the sofa even though I was living with him at that point.

I accept that my parents were at one end of the scale in terms of their 'values' but there were also plenty of others like them, in the late 1970s/early 80s.

Because it's lunacy to marry someone you haven't even lived with. Why would you promise to spend the rest of your life living with someone you hardly know. It's just daft.
The old ways very much relied on the woman putting up with whatever crap the patriarchy threw at her.

@Vapeyvapevape

I would have been married for 34 years this year and just about all of my friends and colleagues lived together before we got married, it was the norm rather than the exception.

None of mine did.

My friends were in two camps. Those who married their long term boyfriends, often met when they were in school or at uni. They didn't live together.

Other friends who married much later on, might have, but even amongst my colleagues in the mid to late 1970s, no one was living together. They were all engaged, living apart and then got married.

35 years ago was the 1980s.

We all loved together. Nobody called it living in sin.

I met DH in 1985, we lived together in a rented house, bought a flat and then got married.

Most if our friends and family did the same - his in the South West and mine in the North West.

That change started after WWII, married women in the workplace and then the pill.

Oh. Maybe that's another of those unexpected class things then.

Working class, no university, living independently from 16/17 years old.

Don’t you think that changes in the financial system and housing costs have contributed to this generational change, as I said above?

If the average young person in their twenties today takes seven to ten years working before they can afford to even rent a place as a couple, never mind buy and afford a wedding, are you expecting them to live at home until 30 just to replicate the boomer experience?

@Ovenaffray

Your post is dripping in judgement.

so is yours, you just judged ovenaffray

I'm glad I lived with my husband for a few years before we got married. I didn't really know him fully - as in through and through, inside and out - until after least a year of living with him. Each to their own but to me personally it seems insane to make such a huge commitment (marriage) without knowing what you're getting yourself into first. It just seems illogical to me.

The boomer experience?

Our parents were all boomers. None were university educated or home owners. So no, my experience doesn't match that Fox

I remember the 1980s and it was unusual for couples to live together without being married. Some did but usually either split up or got married after a short while.

I remember there being gossip at work that someone was pregnant when she and her DP weren't even engaged.

We also were told officially that women could wear trousers to work.

I lived in NW England.

Crikey!

Isn't it weird that we all think our own friendship / family group norms must be the norm for everyone else too? And all of us with such certainty 😃

As previous posters have said I would think it’s pretty obvious why nobody does the “traditional” route these days. Marrying someone you haven’t lived with, and therefore can’t know them properly as a person, seems like madness to me.

Imagine being stuck with someone who can’t/won’t cook, clean, tidy or do their share of life admin. Or farts and holds your head under the cover. Or uses your favourite mug to spit his gum in to. Or wipes his feet on the carpet. Or shouts at your cat!!

You can’t know someone fully until you live with them.

In truth I think its for several reasons. The first for me personally is that I saw a lot of very u happy but persistent marriages around me. To be fair not in my immediate family. My parents have been happily married over 50 years as have my nearest relatives of the same generation. But throughout their friends there was this plethora of unhappy marriages who "stayed together for the children". Hah I was friends with their children and it was rotten for them. I never had the intention of staying in an unhappy marriage (and yes I'm divorced but have now been living with my partner for 5 years).

Secondly women started to earn and get closer to male wages. We didn't need them to support us anymore. In my little world I saw most of us were far more cautious about marriage and didn't actually need it so yes, try before you buy. You don't really know someone in my personal opinion before you have lived with them.

Also the boomer generation really did screw up the housing and financial safety of my generation. Buying a house together became a lot harder. Renting was easier and possibly more transitory. Easier to leave a bad marriage when you don't have to sell.

In truth I see it as a more civilised adult way to live. I do look back at the expectations in my parents circle (which whilst they were middle class they did get brought up to not live together outside of marriage....it took my father years to get used that one with his DC).

I also think we have a higher standard for our selves. We are not going to put up with bad set ups just because (in the main....of course it still happens but its socially more acceptable to expect more in a lot of circles)

I think it comes down to the fact we aren't more traditional because we evolved socially away from a system that was needed once but is now outdated and a bit silly in this day and age.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

The boomer experience?

Our parents were all boomers. None were university educated or home owners. So no, my experience doesn't match that Fox

My parents’ experience matches the OP’s, and literally all their friends and relatives - living in the provinces, all married in sixties or seventies or early 80s in their early 20s straight from living at home, the wives gave up work on getting pregnant (if they did work). Large parts of the country were like this!

However, as a late gen X child of boomers, at school and university in the 90s, the constant mantra was: Don’t expect a job for life any more. Your generation are going to have “portfolio careers”; you need to pay for your own university or training, you need to be flexible and go where the work is, you’re going to have to change jobs many times, keep reskilling and upskilling, graduate schemes are gone now, get used to working your way up on little money.

I’m early forties and still have no money [hah!] but the generations coming up behind me have had an ever shitter job market to deal with.

How is that remotely compatible with this not living together until marriage lifestyle?

@AmandaHugenkiss I love your moe's tavern username!!

@SpeedRunParent

Because it's lunacy to marry someone you haven't even lived with. Why would you promise to spend the rest of your life living with someone you hardly know. It's just daft. The old ways very much relied on the woman putting up with whatever crap the patriarchy threw at her.

I don't see it as lunacy. We and DH didn't live together before we got married and we got married 5 months after meeting. No I wasn't pregnant!

Both my sisters got married without living with their boyfriends first. All of us are still very happily married - me 42 years, my sisters 40 years.

It definitely can work for some couples.

Also, as I said before, living together hardly makes for long happy marriages does it? The divorce rate is still high

(And no they weren’t all middle class either - my parents were working class and grew up on council estates, and where they live it was actually more likely that you would fit into the traditional patterns the OP describes if you were not middle class or university educated.)