Urgent: Can my old Employer give a Bad Reference please?

[52andblue]

3 years ago, I was employed Sept - Feb, then signed off sick Feb-May then my employment ended. I also attended a course during that time which was dependent upon my employment so that had to end too.

My employers were awful. I am physically disabled and they made me drive long distances and based me in an office with no suitable access so I had to climb stairs (toilet based on different floor etc).

I got support from CAB who suggested I take them to Tribunal for discrimination. They eventually gave me a small payment (£2K), a plain: '52 worked here from X to Y' reference & I signed to say I'd not discuss it. Ugh. Ditto with the Uni course (no payment obvs).
Much bad feeling.

I am now applying for a College course. I need to document the work I did at old employers / Uni. I can do that. It is possible Collge will contact either employer / Uni. Can they give me a bad reference / cast doubt upon my documentation (I have no doubt they might as they behaved genuinely badly / spitefully, according to CAB employment lawyer as I also unofficially 'whistleblew' about poor practice in both linked places)

This was all in England, circa 2018.

They can give a bad reference but it has to be truthful.

They can't give a bad reference, only a truthful, factual one. Do you have a settlement agreement following the ET? If so, is there something in it which says this?

I will have an agreement yes. (I moved house 6m ago & can't find it but it must be somewhere!) I remember it was very clear that I could not discuss them but can't remember the other side to it

Also bear in mind that they don't have to give a reference at all, so there is the possibility that they might not reply at all.

that's true @tectonicplates
In a way that might be better. I was just worried what they might say, perhaps directly by phone, that I couldn't know / prove, which might interfere with my future plans.

I thought I read somewhere that an employer cannot give a bad reference just a factual one saying: 'worked here x to y, employment ended because of z' ??

I thought I read somewhere that an employer cannot give a bad reference just a factual one saying: 'worked here x to y, employment ended because of z' ??

This is a common myth. An employer can get sued if they give an untrue bad reference. But they can give a bad reference with legal impunity if they can prove what they say. For simplicity, most large organisations have a policy of providing basic factual references with "employed from X to y, resigned" detail. But this is their choice, not the law, and if you left on poor terms or took a lot of sick leave, etc, they can report that in a reference.

However, if you have a legal agreement that your previous employer would provide a basic factual reference for you, there's not really anything in it for them to break that. They'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face if they flouted the agreement.

They can give what you may consider a bad reference, but what we they write needs to be honest. They can’t lie.

thank you everyone - really helpful.

I need to find that Agreement I think...

I've mentioned this before so apologies to anyone who has seen it but a couple of years ago I had a long-awaited promotion withdrawn due to a reference from a previous boss. She had absolutely no reason to do it, we had always got along fine and we had worked together on some large projects but she told a load of lies. She was careful with her words, lots of "I have seen no evidence of...", etc to completely downplay my achievements. It was enough to make the hiring managers question my capabilities and they withdrew the offer.

When I went to the union I was told that references are subjective and because it was a one-off, it also didn't come under the bullying and harassment policy. HR wouldn't let me give another referee so that was that.

People are always quick to say "bad references are illegal!" but, in practice, it's not as simple as that.

@amusedbush - that's awful I'm so sorry! What a nasty shock for you.
I have found the legal agreement & its very clear they can only confirm that I worked there, the dates, and that I chose to leave. I suppose they could still say something by phone (which I could never prove) though.

Op why don't you get someone to ring them pretending to be from a hiring company so you can actually see what they would say about you?

@2ndtimemum2

Op why don't you get someone to ring them pretending to be from a hiring company so you can actually see what they would say about you?

That’s a really bad idea. Quite shocking actually. I suggest you don’t do this

I suspected a previous employer was giving me bad references as I had a couple of job offers withdrawn for no apparent reason. It was annoying and unfair as I’d done nothing to deserve it apart from hand my notice in from a job which didn’t suit me.

Around this time, I was doing a contract job and got on very well with my manager. I mentioned the reference issue to her and she offered to contact them to see what they said.

It was pretty bad - they said I was unreliable, untrustworthy and they wouldn’t recommend employing me. There was nothing I could do except take the job off my CV so no one would contact them.

The majority of employers these days will only confirm dates of employment and your role.

You can't say something is a bad idea and then not explain why! Unless your just the type who just disagrees for tge sake of disagreeing