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Tory imbecile on Radio 4 just now - social workers must recognise danger of fleeting relationships ?

74 replies

peridito · 20/12/2021 08:34

Who was it ? Only caught snippets but think content going to be very distressing for lone parents .

OP posts:
Kennykenkencat · 20/12/2021 09:43

Why would it be distressing? As a lone parent it is basic common sense to not introduce your children to every new partner and everything goes at a snails pace.

The only people this “news” could be distressing to is the very people who put their children in potential danger.

I know loads of single mothers. Some never date and some see a different guy every week but only when they have been seeing someone long term and are 100 % sure the relationship could go further do they introduce the new partner to the children and for the ones who have gone on to marry the new partner it has come from all the children, from both partners that they make their relationship more permanent.

DerAlteMann · 20/12/2021 09:49

Sadly, history is littered with examples of children who have fallen, for whatever reason, through the SWs' net. For once, I think a Tory MP might have a point. I'm going simply by the OP's posts. I did not hear the MP myself.

5thnonblonde · 20/12/2021 09:49

@CorrBlimeyGG has it- fabulous deflection away from 11 years of successive cuts to public funding. Any parent is a risk as you don’t need a DBS check to procreate- increased free hours provision and social workers would ensure there are more checked people involved in kids’ lives

TimTeleporter · 20/12/2021 09:50

Social workers already know this. However rather than blaming them for other peoples actions, maybe a drive for more recruitment and better wages for social workers, so that they weren't forced to juggle ridiculously high / complex case loads, and reduce these risks. Maybe bring back a sense of community. Neighbours friends and family reaching out to those people they see struggling to see if they can do anything. After all, child protection is everyone's issue, isn't it?

blueskyaboveme · 20/12/2021 09:52

So it's more important not to distress lone parents than to recognise patterns of child abuse, is It?

HeartsAndClubs · 20/12/2021 09:54

But were social workers being vilified? Or was the point being made that perhaps a priority should be made in cases where reports are made and the parent is known to be in a relationship with a new partner who isn’t their child’s other parent.

Because in those instances if that parent’s judgement is off, then it’s more likely the children are going to come to harm if the step parent has sinister intentions.

In Star Hobson and Arthur’s cases those parents were shit parents. So when they moved abusers into their homes it was only a small leap to become child abusing parents,because the step parents themselves were sadist fuckers. Had those parents been decent parents those women would never have made it that far.

Let’s take a different example. I know a woman who has a daughter who she has some massive arguments with. Over the years she has called her names, shouted and screamed at her, the list is endless. It was never anything that SS would involve themselves with, but I would go so far as to say it was shit parenting on her part.

however she met a new partner and moved him in fairly rapidly. She’s lucky. Her partner is a decent human being who has taken on her child as his own. But if he hadn’t been, if he’d been an abuser in his own right, she as the mother might likely not have stopped him, and the situation could have escalated.

This is why these single parents who introduce a number of random partners to their children clearly have questionable judgement, and if they themselves have questionable standards then its not that hard to see how a situation could become an abusive one, sometimes with disasterous consequences.

peridito · 20/12/2021 09:54

Found it now - it was Radio 4 reporting Dominic Lawson's article in the Daily Mail .Nothing in the reporting to suggest that the emphasis on "broken families"or social workers not questioning the danger of them might be simplistic or off .
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0012pkw 1hour 40mins 18 secs in .

"Children like tragic Star Hobson die because social workers don't question the devastating danger of modern broken families"

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10327475/DOMINIC-LAWSON-Social-workers-dont-question-devastating-danger-modern-broken-families.html

OP posts:
BungleandGeorge · 20/12/2021 09:55

I think the offensive thing about it is some random giving advice to a professional person about how to do their job! Ss are already aware of this obvious risk factor, they just don’t have the resource to implement it fully

TulipsGarden · 20/12/2021 09:57

The problem is not social workers not recognising possible harms. It's the severe shortage of social workers and their insane case load. My friend is a social worker. She knows she has too many children to look after and they may be at risk because her workload is too much, but what can she do?

LethargicActress · 20/12/2021 10:00

It’s true though, and there are far too many cases where new partners low level bully or abuse their step children. It’s low level enough that it can just be seen as being strict, or a difference in parenting, but it is damaging to children and can affect their emotional well-being for years into adulthood.

We all need to be much more aware of how damaging step parenting relationships can be, even if it does make life harder for single parents. I say this as a single parent who remarried btw, but also as a step child.

madisonbridges · 20/12/2021 10:00

@CorrBlimeyGG

Social workers already know this. But when they're case loads are more than anyone can reasonably manage, they can't take the actions they need to, to keep the child(ren) safe.

It's not the fault of social workers that their funding has been cut to the bone.

I find comments like this galling. It's true there's never enough money but every social worker knows that each time they visit a property there is a potential case that could result in a child being removed. They are not every day situations but SW should always be on alert. Whatever the pressures on the SW department both a SW and a police officer visited that household. And both were hoodwinked by the step-mother. That had nothing to do with costs or pressures. When you're investigating a complaint there are a series of questions to ask, behaviours to look for, actions to take. They're standard. You're not looking at your watch and thinking you have to move on. You give your entire attention to what is happening in front of you. In this case they even had police back up and they also coordinated with the police. When pictures were submitted the following day, no one returned. But why hadn't the SW examined the child themselves? Maybe they did and they were given an explanation they were satisfied with. Again that has nothing to do with lack of resources because a social worker actually went.

It would be comforting to think that a SW can walk into these situations and make the right decision every time. But that is unrealistic. Most SW will hope that if they miss something, they will get a second opportunity to rectify their error and usually that will happen. It didn't happen here.

I'm not criticising social workers because the truth is that humans are fallible and whenever humans are involved, it means mistakes, sadly, can happen. But it is annoying to me when that is then blamed on lack of resources. There were no lack of resources here as both the SW and the police visited. But an error of judgement was made. No SW needs to be named, shamed and crucified. But there does need to be an acceptance that mistakes were made in their investigation.

KirstenBlest · 20/12/2021 10:02

Not RTFT. It was Dominic Lawson.He's not an MP.

He's not an imbecile. He had a valid point

How many threads have there been on MN about a single mother getting pregnant or moving in with a new partner they barely know?

madisonbridges · 20/12/2021 10:05

Dominic Lawson isn't an MP, is he? I thought he was just a journalist. His father was an MP, Nigel Lawson.

PiglingBlonde · 20/12/2021 10:07

Dominic Lawson isn't an MP, he's a newspaper columnist

Kennykenkencat · 20/12/2021 10:14

Whilst SW might be underfunded I read an article yesterday on Bradford SS by someone who worked there

I took from the article that it was on the cards something terrible would be missed as there were no formats that they worked to. Everything was fire fighting and unreadable notes scribbles on the top of forms.

It seemed that they have a high turnover of staff because people couldn’t work without some sort of structure and also knew they didn’t want to be tarnished when not if something happened

Unfortunately I have only had negative dealings with SS
A friends ex accused of completely outlandish things and the SWs who dealt with her lapped it up.
The report was unreadable and would on one page say one thing and on the next say the total opposite so you couldn’t actually understand what it was they were trying to say.
I think that whilst you need to learn the different rulings and laws surrounding SW I think instead of 2 qualified SWs going into someone’s home there should be 1 qualified person and 1 who has some common sense who doesn’t just listen to the words someone says but sees the other signs things might not be as happy as the parent and partner make out and at the very least be able to speak to the child alone. I think a history of trauma in your own childhood does make a better qualification at spotting abuse than any degree and happy family background.

TimTeleporter · 20/12/2021 10:19

I'm not quite sure what Dominic thinks social workers are supposed to do here. Threaten single parents with the removal of their children, until they get rid of their new partner?

Some of these households are perfectly well functioning. And some are not. Single parents do need to be aware of the increased risks. They need to know where to reach out if there's a problem, knowing that their request will be responded to quickly.
But social workers don't simply have the right to remove children from family's without some level of evidence that there's something wrong. There is a threshold that needs to be met. And sometimes that evidence is not immediately apparent or easy to get.
But I'm sure social workers are grateful for Dominic's advice nethertheless.

Kennykenkencat · 20/12/2021 10:21

Tbh I think this thread needs to be removed. It is just another almost libellous thread title.

Now we find out it wasn’t a Conservative MP who seemed to upset peridito but a journalist

Kennykenkencat · 20/12/2021 10:22

TimTeleporter

I'm not quite sure what Dominic thinks social workers are supposed to do here. Threaten single parents with the removal of their children, until they get rid of their new partner

Isn’t that exactly what they do?

TeacupDrama · 20/12/2021 10:23

well considering how many people on here consider a 9 year old walking home from school a major safeguarding threat that should involve SS even if it is ess than 500 metres
SS have enough to do with hard cases without dealing with pearl clutching head teachers and parents that want a blanket rule against y5 or sometimes y6 and younger walking home regardless of whether it is safe or not, every call that is about a minor incident needs dealing with and detracts from major incidents just like people turning up at A&E when they don't need to it detracts from providing a service to the real need,
it has long being acknowledged that an adult in the home that is not biologically related to the child is the greatest risk to the child

5thnonblonde · 20/12/2021 10:27

Star Hobson’s mum must have been 17 when she was pregnant and living with her grandparents, suggesting she herself may have been subject to a care order. Arthur’s mum murdered her ex. There are far more obvious and simple indicators that these families were at risk that we could focus on which wouldn’t also sweep up thousands of healthy functioning blended families.

I’m amazed following a parent’s murder conviction there wouldn’t be more checks on a child’s emotional welfare but perhaps this was exacerbated by lockdown.

Kennykenkencat · 20/12/2021 10:27

@peridito

Who was it ? Only caught snippets but think content going to be very distressing for lone parents .
If you didn’t know who it was how did you know he voted Conservative
TimTeleporter · 20/12/2021 10:28

I think a history of trauma in your own childhood does make a better qualification at spotting abuse than any degree and happy family background.

Although many social workers choose social work as a career precisely because of their background and lived experience. Which isnt always a happy family background. And these combined skills of training and lived experience do help social workers assess risk. There will always be children that slip through the net. It's a tragedy. But there will always be serious case reviews and lessons to learn. We might reduce harm. It will never completely be stamped out. Some sort of acknowledgment of the good social workers do every single day, of the risks that have been avoided, the lives saved. These things never get acknowledged though. Just Joe public telling social workers how they should have done their job better. No wonder they leave in droves and social work positions remain unfilled. And then the problem is made even worse.

TimTeleporter · 20/12/2021 10:32

@Kennykenkencat

TimTeleporter

I'm not quite sure what Dominic thinks social workers are supposed to do here. Threaten single parents with the removal of their children, until they get rid of their new partner

Isn’t that exactly what they do?

Why on earth would they do that? Single parents are allowed to have new relationships. Yes they need to be more careful. No social workers dont have the right to sweep in and take their children unless there was an actual reason to do so. Confused
LondonWolf · 20/12/2021 10:38

It’s true though. I am a single parent and I have many single parent friends. Many, not all, but a significant number are actively searching for new partners and introducing them far too quickly. I’m not sure why but I wonder if the often toxic arena of online dating contributes - they know there is huge competition and lots of women for mediocre men to choose from so they try to get them cemented into the relationship asap. I have a friend who became pregnant within three/four months of being with each of her last three boyfriends - miscarriages sadly but the last one was successful and she’s still with the man. Her existing child was introduced to three live in boyfriends over the space of four years. I see it time and time again - quick pregnancies and/or moving to live together.

My dd had counselling with CAMHS recently - she has high anxiety related to her ASC. She was talking about how she was scared to sleep alone and would often go and wake her sibling. The counsellor immediately asked me who was in the family home or if anyone stayed over, clearing meaning a new partner. I wasn’t offended. She was doing her job and I was happy to tell her. Just me and my children fwiw.

peridito · 20/12/2021 10:38

If you didn’t know who it was how did you know he voted Conservative
fair point @Kennykenkencat ,I shouldn't have assumed that .Pre coffee and I'm ill .

By all means report my thread if you feel it should be removed .Is it really libellous ?

I think this might be similar to article you refer to
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/17/scariest-place-ive-worked-social-worker-recalls-stint-in-bradford

OP posts:
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