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We need to do something about babies being killed in this country

91 replies

faithfulbird20 · 14/12/2021 15:00

Wtf is going on. Are we nation of monsters who don't have the love and care for our own offspring? I'm so upset I can't even function...

OP posts:
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 14/12/2021 16:01

They're not rare though, are they? One child a week dies at the hands of their parents in the UK

It is remarkably rare in the UK. 0.2 per 100,000 children. Compared to other nations we are almost right at the very bottom of the pile.

twitter.com/susiehawkes/status/1466860729051623431/photo/1

Youaremypenguin · 14/12/2021 16:02

We always knew lockdown would impact on family safety. Social workers cannot stop people killing their children. They prevent the majority but inevitably some children will be killed.

Its tragic but so is a lot of life.

baroqueandblue · 14/12/2021 16:07

People live increasingly isolated lives, whereas when I grew up neighbours looked out for each other and I called many of my neighbours auntie.We need to get back to communities that care about each other and look out for each other.

Believe me, those good ole days weren't as benign as you paint them for many children in the situation you describe.

OP, ignore the people running your reaction down and listen to those who are delineating the political moves that are perpetuating and worsening this deadly state of affairs. Your instincts are spot on, don't let anyone persuade you otherwise. But I wish you the best for managing your anxieties about this, because it is fucking hard for some of us.

swissmodel · 14/12/2021 16:17

There is no 'we'. Even if this would happen at 100 or 1,000 times the current rate, it would still be evil individuals acting on their own. There is no group culture or support for this kind of behaviour.

Dollywilde · 14/12/2021 16:18

We are seeing the inevitable consequence of cutting funding for social care and children's service to the bone.

I had a baby in the middle of the pandemic and she was seen by the midwives, then her first HV check at the 10-14 day mark. That's it. She was seen by the GP for her 6 week check and then various vaccinations, but I could have declined those. She's 16 months now.

I remember saying to DH at the time (and posting on here, actually) that surely there were going to be scores of vulnerable children falling through the cracks. It used to terrify me that no one seemed to be checking up on small children. I guess this is why.

EvilPea · 14/12/2021 16:22

Neither of the two recent cases were killed by their parent (although many are, I know). They both seemed fairly ‘ok’ parents before they hooked up with the murder. There has to be something in that.
More mental health support for children about healthy relationships, manipulation and abuse.
Better drug and alcohol intervention. As well as the obvious change of shift of child abuse being everyone’s problem, and better funding.

There was a poster on one of the Arthur threads whose neighbour kept reporting but stopped as nothing changed and she heard the children getting beaten for telling someone.
We need people to stand up, but they also need to be listened to

EvilPea · 14/12/2021 16:24

With my eldest I didn’t have one health visitor check on us. Not one.
I moved when she was 18 months. Still nothing.
We did no clinics (new area both times, pre sat nav on your phone days), nothing. It was like she didn’t exist.

AnotherOneWithNoGoodName · 14/12/2021 16:36

The government defunding services doesn't help.
In my area we've lost a mother and child drop in centre (where people could drop in for a chat with a support worker, let the dc play etc) and sure start is gone.
Not having services means children who could be saved by early intervention are made invisible. Lockdown really did not help with older children, either.
It's multi-factorial. Poverty. Addiction. Mental Health. Education. Social services. Fund the last three and tackle the first two and it would make a huge difference in outcomes for children.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/12/2021 16:41

People did say from the outset of the first lockdown that it would be bad for domestic abuse. I think people were thinking more about women being abused by partners they couldn't get away from, but the fact that children were not in school or see by health visitors etc has to have played a significant role in levels of child abuse.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 14/12/2021 16:42

And of course defunding has taken away services - and even if they'd limped on with inadequate funding, lockdown finished them off anyway.

Campfirewood · 14/12/2021 16:47

@RobinPenguins @PurpleDaisies I was just sticking up for the person who has been deeply affected by it. I am mentally well, otherwise pretty jolly, and it has affected me.
I think the ability to sleep is functional. Some of my friends struggled with their jobs the day it came out, as they had seen the video of him struggling to carry his duvet, and kept thinking about it and struggled to concentrate a work.
We're all different aren't we? Some people are not as affected and that's fine, some are, and that's fine too.
I wanted the person who was affected to feel less alone and less, strange, I guess.

ElftonWednesday · 14/12/2021 16:51

I think this could easily be solved by throwing money at it. Not that much money either, compared to what the government spent on Covid, Brexit and bailing out banks. There are actually not that many children in care proportionately or who need to be at any time but there are very few social workers. Pay social workers better, massive recruitment campaign, proper funding for care, so kids get continuity of care with the same people all their lives, as in Denmark where a high proportion of care leavers go to university.

LesterKnopf · 14/12/2021 16:51

So what are you going to do about it then OP? Get a job involving safeguarding children so you can make all the right decisions? Become a social worker? Foster children? Donate to / volunteer for charities which help vulnerable children? Put pressure on governments (national and local) to fund and run children's services better?

If nothing, then I understand why you are upset by these stories, but if you don't do anything and expect the problems to just get sorted by others, it really is just ultimately pointless hand wringing...

Spoldge45 · 14/12/2021 17:04

Its think its madness that to adopt a dog, you have to have a home visits & checks various are made, but to bring a child into this world.....absolutely nothing!

You could be a drug addict/dealer/alcoholic/have severe mental health issues or still be a child yourself, but you can still bring a baby into this world & sadly what happened to Star are the end result of situations like this. Extremely sad.

TallulahsCurse · 14/12/2021 17:06

@faithfulbird20

Function meaning I wasn't able to move for a few minutes. I'm not talking about being in my bed all day. But forget me, those poor poor children facing all that abuse. There must be a child every week dying due to this. It's horrific.
Yeah that's not a normal reaction OP. You need some help.
ElleGettingBetter · 14/12/2021 17:11

Who do you vote for out of interest OP?

1forAll74 · 14/12/2021 17:13

In lots of cases, you can't do anything about child murderers, or any other murders, as there are certain types of people, who are hidden behind closed doors, who have brains that do not function properly, being mentally unstable, and can often do horrendous things to others, without even thinking about it. or the outcomes of their vile actions.

Immaculatemisconception · 14/12/2021 17:45

@EvilPea

With my eldest I didn’t have one health visitor check on us. Not one. I moved when she was 18 months. Still nothing. We did no clinics (new area both times, pre sat nav on your phone days), nothing. It was like she didn’t exist.
She'd be too busy running around after her mountain of child protection cases, not from choice.
stmw123 · 14/12/2021 19:28

@Immaculatemisconception

I've worked as a health visitor and I had over 50 child protection cases on my caseload, as well as all the other families.

It was an impossible caseload. I couldn't see the at risk families often enough, never mind see all the others. I was just one HV in an office in an inner city. There were six of us altogether and there were many other health centres in the city.

This situation is the same up and down the country. When there is a death of a child, I'm heartbroken but not surprised. Child protection issues are a massive problem in this country. It's something that most people don't know about.

Whenever someone comes on here and asks if they should report a concern, I'm astonished how many people tell them to mind their own business. I think this is some of the problem these days. People live increasingly isolated lives, whereas when I grew up neighbours looked out for each other and I called many of my neighbours auntie.

We need to get back to communities that care about each other and look out for each other.

The safety of children is everyone's business.

100% agree. People have no idea about what goes on.

It's obviously very sad but I'm not shocked by it in the slightest. Quite the opposite, we've been expecting it for years.

I'm glad people are taking notice of it, but doubt anything will change.

Piggyk2 · 14/12/2021 19:33

@Immaculatemisconception you have raised some good points. People live next door to their neighbours and they probably don't even know each others names. Them days have long gone and this is what is wrong in the world. I wouldn't tell a strangers child off... for fear of being the bad person. Sad times!

BrieAndChilli · 14/12/2021 19:42

@Spoldge45

Its think its madness that to adopt a dog, you have to have a home visits & checks various are made, but to bring a child into this world.....absolutely nothing!

You could be a drug addict/dealer/alcoholic/have severe mental health issues or still be a child yourself, but you can still bring a baby into this world & sadly what happened to Star are the end result of situations like this. Extremely sad.

And even when someone is proved an unfit parent they are free to keep having more! My birth mother had a child adopted before I was born, then she had me and my 2 younger sisters before we were entails out into care. She then had another child who taken at birth and possibly more after that!
BoredZelda · 14/12/2021 20:06

do not overlook lockdown played a huge part in this that cannot be ignored

You mean the part that covid played.

Sidneysussex · 14/12/2021 20:38

It’s awful but the safety net is too stretched.
On this site people moan that a health visitor wants to come in??? Think about it, they need to see children at home to try and pick up problems. But oh no you actually see threads telling people to opt out, or moaning when they ask questions. We need to be more open to questions and letting health professionals in if we want to protect the vulnerable.
Latest case the natural mother was vulnerable, she had a learning disability, she was a young mother, she had a controlling, violent partner. No doubt many more factors will come to light.
Were less questions asked because it was a same sex relationship?

You see threads where someone has a concern and everyone tells them to mind their own business?? Again , who should be looking and asking questions? The recent case people did ask questions and were dismissed.
Yes people lie!

I see threads where single parents are happily bringing new partners into the home? Where are the people who point out the risks? And yes this is a major threat. Go look up the myth of invisible men.
Children under 1 have the highest risk of being murdered and the culprits are usually a parent or a step parent figure.

People don’t question home schooling anymore. These children are often not seen by any professional. Think about what can be hidden.

Lock down also hasn’t helped home schooling and isolating was used as to hide many vulnerable children. The first children to be shielding were often the most vulnerable.
You only see the cases that resulted in death on the news, you do not see the neglect, abuse, sexual abuse, exposure to violence , drugs, alcohol and pornography and exploitation that has gone on.

We need to actually realise not all children have a stable loving home and often additional support is required. But no funding is available.

Serious funding is required to ensure children are seen physically by professionals and also a cultural acceptance that we need to have our children seen. Ie turn up to appointments accept home visits from health visitors (when offered) , expect teachers to ask about absence.
We all need to actually start asking questions and accept some things do pose a risk.

GreenLunchBox · 14/12/2021 20:44

@Dollywilde

We are seeing the inevitable consequence of cutting funding for social care and children's service to the bone.

I had a baby in the middle of the pandemic and she was seen by the midwives, then her first HV check at the 10-14 day mark. That's it. She was seen by the GP for her 6 week check and then various vaccinations, but I could have declined those. She's 16 months now.

I remember saying to DH at the time (and posting on here, actually) that surely there were going to be scores of vulnerable children falling through the cracks. It used to terrify me that no one seemed to be checking up on small children. I guess this is why.

I agree. Mine are teens now but I remember being gobsmacked that you could have a baby and do away with it and nobody would even know. Health visitors were useless and there were barely any checks. You don't even have to register a kid for school if you don't want to.
CaveWoman1 · 14/12/2021 20:49

I agree OP. I was and am very disturbed by these two horrific cases. I just can’t get them out of my head. Arthur’s case shocked the nation, even Jacob Rees-Mogg admitted he struggled with it. It’s terribly, terribly sad.

The horrible reality is, some kids are safer at school than they are at home & because lockdown forced schools to close some very vulnerable children didn’t have eyes & ears on them as they usually would. Particularly in Arthur’s case. This is why I honestly think closing schools should never happen again

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