The situation in LA

[Cheesefiend36]

www.nytimes.com/2021/12/12/us/los-angeles-mayor-race.html

I've been reading with interest that LA has had a terrible time of it since Covid and new anti prison sentence laws which has seen crime go up. I follow somebody who was in LA for a holiday last week and vowed never to go back after seeing the amount of poverty, homeless camps in tourist places, crime rates and a general feeling of not being safe. Lifeless bodies on the side of the road is apparently the norm with no body batting an eyelid

LAPD have recommended that tourists stay away because they can't keep them safe

Is anyone there right now or has been recently that can share their experience?
So much wealth there, how can this be happening?

@Scbchl

I follow her too and was shocked to read what she said and then the multiple replies to her story all saying the same. Absolutley astonishes me that people are living like that just stepping over dead bodies at the side of the road, going about their day in a developed country.

Probably Fentanyl - I've seen that in Orlando .

There isn’t much of a safety net, no nhs, health care is tied to your job; it can be astronomical and ruin lives really quickly. Not sure if the US has anything like furlough either?

Yes, the US had their own version of furlough (FPUC) until September, and no, health care isn't just tied to jobs, which is why Medicaid exists: www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/10-things-to-know-about-medicaid-setting-the-facts-straight/

But don't let me spoil yet another anti-American thread ...

Sad to read about San Fran, I went there probably 30 years ago and absolutely loved it, one of my favourite holidays ever (also went to wine country, Monteray etc), sounds like it has changed a lot.

Have never been to LAS and never wanted to go. Always sounded like it would be absolutely not my type of place.

LA that should say!

Ugh that Martha woman is a c*

But don't let me spoil yet another anti-American thread ...

Is it anti American to have a thread talking about the rise in homelessness in America since the pandemic?

@A580Hojas

I don't think anyone is denying London has a homeless population. They are just saying it is nothing like the scale of homelessness in LA/San Fransisco, not aware of any actual tent cities etc.

I spent some time working in Manchester a couple of years ago. I thought there were many more homeless people in that city than there are in London (relatively). Or if could be that they were just more active in approaching people for money etc. I got quite upset about it at the time, because you just can't help everyone, and the requests seemed endless.

Manchester was grim last time I was there.

Ds was in San Francisco and LA in November.
He said never had he seen so many homeless and such poverty than he saw in San Francisco . LA was same only there was a lot if drug/spice victims. He found it really scary and didn't feel safe at all . Even their hotel was horrible .

Drugs, post-industrialisation and family breakdown. The homeless are overwhelmingly men. Men who have no point. They come from dysfunctional families, they have no family unit themselves, women do not need a breadwinner (contrary to popular opinion there is a welfare state in the US) and if they fall prey to drugs they cannot hold down a job or keep accommodation.

In Seattle, for example, there are good homeless shelters, but you cannot take drugs in them. So you see the tent cities which are a free-for-all crime and drug wise.

In Portland, which was very welcoming to homeless, the policy has been a victim of its own success, with more and more coming, so they are camped all along residential streets in “hipster” areas, defecating in public and needless to say bringing crime as they need to finance their drug habits.

And the problem is not limited to cities: the scariest place I have ever been is Aberdeen (birthplace of Kurt Cobain) a once prosperous logging and cannery town , but now there are people lying in front of houses strung out, gun shops and frankly you would hesitate about walking down the street there.

@mantlepiece

It seems to me that the root of the problem is drug and alcohol addiction. This causes people to lose everything, not just their home and income but the support of their family as well. Even the charities that provide hostel accommodation will not provide a bed for active users. Therefore the only option for addicts is the streets.

Then you have the fallout of the addicts on wider society, the gangs, the guns, the crime etc.

Yes, mental health issues are in the mix too, did this cause the addictions or is it a product of it? Anecdotally, I can report my brothers mental Heath will never recover from his fall into the spiral of addiction.

What is the answer? On the face of it, you would think that in a civilised wealthy society these people should be helped, rescued, etc.

But how?

The US stopped fighting the “war on drugs” when 9/11 happened and we started fighting the “war on terror” instead.

Drug addiction is the worst thing happening here. But the people in power don’t care and do nothing. Even President Biden’s son Hunter glorifies the use of drugs in his biography and has cycled in and out of rehab. But policies to prevent the next generation from falling prey to drugs do not exist. I’m not convinced you can help the ones that are already addicted. I lost a family member who had years of sobriety and went back pretty easily.

The opioid crisis continues ravaging the country but big pharma prevails. The federal government also does nothing to prevent the influx of drugs from our borders.

Driving through the country is shocking and terrifying. I grew up in the 70s and 80s. It’s not even the same country. My city is safe, my neighborhood is safe. I’m staying away from the big cities. NYC is decriminalizing drug use and opening centers where you can shoot up. Hoping the new Mayor will reverse the policies that are destroying what was very recently an amazing place.

Is it anti American to have a thread talking about the rise in homelessness in America since the pandemic?

I wouldn't have said so, no - but it is to pile in with competitive misinformation about quite so much

and then there's "Selling Sunset". Staggering inequalities.

I wouldn't have said so, no - but it is to pile in with competitive misinformation about quite so much

Yeah, that's true. I think that, so long as misinformed is challenged, it's still a worthwhile thread.

@SecondClassmyass

And yes, lived and worked all over London for 30 years, there are no tent cities. This is fake news. There is more homeless in Leeds city centre than on Piccadilly.

Yes was on Piccadilly twice last week saw no tents or homeless. Not saying there aren't homeless people in London- there clearly are and worse than 20 years ago but the streets of London are certainly not paved with shit.

@Sonex

Yes Dopesick was an eye opener, I didn't realise the whole sorry mess was actually pretty much down to one pharmaceutical company's bad practice. And yes thank f they didn't get in here much. I think the Fentanyl thing is becoming more of a problem though, apparently comes in from Chinese labs.

There's another interesting dramatisation of the opioid crisis called Hightown, don't know if you've seen it? The Simon Reeve California documentaries also touch on it and are very good.

It’s really not just one. Purdue certainly helped, and hold so much blame. But once a person goes down the path and is willing to shoot drugs into themselves they’ll take whatever they can get. Shooting Oxy came along one day after a host of other pharmaceuticals taken in pill form for my addict. All kinds of them paved the path. At the end it was just anything available.

Fentanyl disguised to look like Percocet shipped in from Mexico was the final thing he took which killed him. I know where it came from and can prove it. The police avoided my calls.

Ironically our prime ministers constituency has a homeless issue, families living in a multi story car park. You don’t see them there during the day, but that’s where they sleep. There’s homeless singles as well but a couple of families are part of it now.
I know of one “resident” taken to hospital who had to lose a few toes to frost bite.

I worry so much that we will follow america, so much of our Internet searches brings up American related stuff it’s like we are merging and I don’t like it. There’s obviously some great sides to America but the ethics and ethos of “your on your own” worries me as it creeps in.

Hmmm... I last visited San Francisco/the Bay Area in February 2019, just before the pandemic. Used public transport from Palo Alto to SF without problem, stayed with a friend in SF who lived in a fairly central albeit mostly residential area that was absolutely fine, wend for a walk in Corona (sic) Park, used the bus in town without problem. Presumably my friend knew which the areas to avoid are.

Before that, I'd last spent time in SF in the mid-2000s, and even then the Tenderloin area was brutal, with homeless people, many of the drugged and some absolutely reeking, literally falling about. It all depends on where exactly you are, which is how the US middle class - what there is of it - gets by.

I don't disagree that US society is pretty dysfunctional b/o its racial and social polarization, and getting more so. The NYT had a long article recently on how California, liberal as it is, is failing to deal with its problems. But it's not helpful to exaggerate either - the problem is precisely that middle class people (like my friend) CAN still get by comfortably and don't absolutely have to address all that's going wrong. Not that I have any idea how they would do so, politically.

People referencing tent cities in the UK are so wrong. As another poster said, there are small encampments. This would include the old set-up at Waterloo. You could walk the perimeter in a minute or two of even that. Skid Row in LA is 2.7 square miles! Probably, could fit nearly 1000 football pitches into that area size.

Admittedly, I have encountered human shit on London streets, but not frequently enough to feel it’s a real problem. Same with being approached for money or encountering addicts/mentally unwell. It has increased in recent years but not dramatically. For context I live in London and do Central London walks up to zone 2, at least a few times a week. Was daily during COVID.

DH was in SF in November for work. Said it was disgusting, and much worse than he’d ever seen it before. Solid rows of tents and people sleeping rough. Like me he is a life long Londoner, and agree the two are just not comparable.

Why do you, as a middle-class person, have to address what’s going on? Surely what most people do is try to live their life in a crime-free, decent neighbourhood and earn enough to get by. The Americans I know are not super-rich - eg teachers - they are just normal citizens.

Just the same as here - the city centre nearest me is vile now. It didn’t use to be. Of course I care - but I have seen that unlimited funds is not going to get people to come off drugs. They won’t even go in the homeless shelter beds (of which there is a good supply) as they are not allowed to use drugs/alcohol in them. So “normal” people quite understandably ship out of the centre (including younger people) and it gradually becomes a dump and then a no-go zone.

the Tories absolutely did not bring in the NHS, that was the post ww2 Labour government.

I just thought I'd highlight this. It can't be said often enough. Don't kid yourselves that those who now occupy the Tory Party want to protect it. They know it's popular with the public, hence their privatisation by stealth. IMO they also tend to glorify the US, and of course want nothing to do with European Social Democracy.

@Chocaholic9 lucky you. And no I haven't spotted human faeces on the footpath around my home, it's quite a nice area, but certainly in some areas especially where there is poverty, homelessness and heavy drinking. It's easy to stick to your own little world and stay unaware. I have a role that takes me into many communities.

I haven't lived in London in a long time, but there was a tent city on the Bullring near South Bank in the 90s (Cardboard city?), although IIRC they were all moved on. It wasn't on the same scale as skid row though

@raspberrymuffin
Current Tories tend to avoid the overt religious extremism of the US right wing because it's generally not palatable to British voters but they definitely share some of their views and many Tory MPs are strongly anti-abortion and anti-gay rights.
I googled how many MPs are catholic on the assumption that these -might be anti abortion and anti -gay and the majority by a long way are Labour MPs.

There are currently 68 members of the House of Commons who subscribe to the Roman Catholic religion. Of these, there are 40 Labour Party MPs, 19 Conservatives, 5 Liberal Democrats, 3 Social Democratic Labour and 1 Scottish Nationalist. Furthermore, there are 5 Sinn Feinn Members of Parliament, most or all of whom are Roman Catholics. However, Sinn Feinn members do not take their seats in the House.

There were 3 homeless (presumably) beggars in the centre of Carlisle the other day - certainly never seen that before but it's a small community - seems unlikely a local lad could sit and beg without someone recognising him, or asking him what happened , or contacting his relatives. Strange.