The situation in LA

[Cheesefiend36]

www.nytimes.com/2021/12/12/us/los-angeles-mayor-race.html

I've been reading with interest that LA has had a terrible time of it since Covid and new anti prison sentence laws which has seen crime go up. I follow somebody who was in LA for a holiday last week and vowed never to go back after seeing the amount of poverty, homeless camps in tourist places, crime rates and a general feeling of not being safe. Lifeless bodies on the side of the road is apparently the norm with no body batting an eyelid

LAPD have recommended that tourists stay away because they can't keep them safe

Is anyone there right now or has been recently that can share their experience?
So much wealth there, how can this be happening?

The fall of once great cities is nothing new and as history shows it’s been happening from the dawn of time. From more recent ones this would be Acapulco in Mexico which was once the playground of rich and famous, now is torn by violence. the army patrols the city, the beaches, schools are often closed as it’s too dangerous for kids to go out. Joburg, Cape Town. South African friends from the UK don’t even visit anymore for holidays. Well, even Kabul used to be a laid back stop over on the Hippy Trail once upon a time.

Do celebrities still live in LA? Why? If so much of the city is a no go zone?

And yes, lived and worked all over London for 30 years, there are no tent cities. This is fake news. There is more homeless in Leeds city centre than on Piccadilly.

@Wondering1000

Do celebrities still live in LA? Why? If so much of the city is a no go zone?

All the big studios/companies are there (films/television/streamers/licensing companies/brands) and they just live in their big mansions with private security, send their kids to private schools, pay for private healthcare etc etc.

@mathanxiety what confuses me is the lack of understanding that a better society for all makes it better for you.

One thing I like about the American system is you can't avoid tax can you by living abroad for x days?

Really useful and insightful post @mathanxiety.

@mathanxiety

There's a certain irony in posters complaining of insular Americans while gasping open mouthed at the idea that LA isn't a city whose streets are pa Ed with gold.

The US is a society where there are extremes of wealth and poverty. Surely this is common knowledge? The reason for the extremes are - oppositionon the part of the rich to paying a fair income tax, leading to lack of social services, and above all the lack of the sort of welfare safety net that was developed in western Europe after WW2.

The strange part of all of this is that British people tend to vote Tory, implying that they support the same sort of anti-state, small government, its-your-own-fault-if-you're-poor mentality.

I love in what has been described here as an appallingly religious place, the Midwest, in a big city which has seen a large uptick in crime in the last year. Everyone is blaming the current states atorney for the mess, because her office supports less incarceration. The police are up in arms because they arrest suspects and they're out on the streets again the next day. They're also hopping mad about BLM, partly because the president of the police union is a fascist who openly supported the insurrection at the US Capitol last January, and partly because a lot of police officers tend to have racist or authoritarian views, and come from the armed services into policing. The mayor is a tough black woman, a red rag to a bull as far as the police union president is concerned. He led am effort on the part of the police to refuse to be vaccinated against covid.

Massive institutional change is needed, not the same old incarceration - poverty - poor education - incarceration cycle that has kept America ticking over for decades. Nobody really noticed the built in problems until BLM. The system black people have to contend with was perfectly acceptable - or completely possible to ignore - to the majority of Americans until victims started putting videos up on social media.

I honestly believe there's a reckoning coming. I'm very grateful to Bernie Sanders for saying the word 'socialism' out loud and unapologetically, but I fear there will be fascist rule here before people see sense, renounce personal greed, and accept that there is a need for a social contract.

American society is pitched much further right than British. The Tories have much more in common with Democrats than Republicans.

For example there is no suggestion of reversing abortion laws in the UK and the Tories are actually the ones who introduced the NHS in the first place.

But socialism is never going to fly in the US (which is why Bernie was clearly rejected multiple times) and as has been proven time and time again, real socialism doesn't work anyway (USSR, Cuba, Venezuela etc).

However social welfare and a societal safety net as we have in the UK very much do work.

And the idea that America considers itself a first world country when it doesn't even have universal healthcare blows my mind - not to mention the guns.

But sadly I don't see any hope of it ever changing.

I am shocked and what genuinely puzzles me is: Isn't California a democratic party state? And the democratic party in the US is all for equality and tax the rich and look after the poor? Also, aren't Apple, Google - the big tech companies support the democratic party to look after the poor (sorry for the paraphrasing)?
How come the reality is like this?

Simon Reeve looked at the homeless problem in California in his Americas series. Think its still on I Player if anyone is interested.

Shocking to read all this.
But what a brilliant source of info this site is.
Thanks for this thread

Friends moved to New York area with teenage child, she's now a rabid democrat who never questions their policies. Her son who got a good degree is now a 40 year old dope smoking hippy who's home is a winnebego they're both stoned regularly their kids never get schooling they're always on the move he does odd jobs decides the boss is awful so they move on. I just don't recognize them any more.

@LifeIsWhat

I am shocked and what genuinely puzzles me is: Isn't California a democratic party state? And the democratic party in the US is all for equality and tax the rich and look after the poor? Also, aren't Apple, Google - the big tech companies support the democratic party to look after the poor (sorry for the paraphrasing)? How come the reality is like this?

Champagne Socialism.

It's the state of politics today - the left is absolutely no different to the right; each individual is from the "elite" (and I use the term VERY loosely) and out for themselves. It isn't just in the UK or USA . . . . they're very easy targets for those that have a gripe with western civilisation.

What's next?

Absolute fucking chaos.

This thread is eerily similar to the south Africa thread also running. Awful.

They have guns in USA if the police force is forced by politics to back off with the BLM concerns they could be facing a wild west scenario where normally law abiding citizens will start defending themselves with weapons

For example there is no suggestion of reversing abortion laws in the UK and the Tories are actually the ones who introduced the NHS in the first place.

I can't let this slide by. There are constant attacks on abortion laws in the UK, especially by lowering the time limit for accessing an abortion. In reality, it's getting harder to get an abortion on the NHS because of cuts and access to GP's (you still have to have 2 GP's sign to say you can have an abortion, unless you can pay)

In addition, the Tories fought the implementation of the NHS every step of the way. It was Labour who bought in free healthcare at the point of need. Make no mistake, once the Americans have their claws fully hooked into our healthcare then we'll also go down the US road.

Dublin also has people sleeping in tents or in sleeping bags on pieces of cardboard. Or people out of their heads on drugs and/or alcohol looking for a euro for the shelter. It is much more noticeable now than pre the pandemic. The vast majority of them also have very poor mental health.

My Job takes me to the States all the time. San Francisco has been going downhill for years and parts of downtown in the middle of the tourist areas really can be dangerous. People shooting up in front of you in broad daylight, muggings, human feces on the pavement...since COVID it is far worse. The same goes for some areas of LA.
Manhattan - parts of Midtown now also feel unsafe partly due to a huge absence of tourists and office workers which has led to so many shut down/derelict hotels/shops/restaurants/bars etc.
Although there have always been issues with downtown LA and San Francisco it now feels much worse, unsafe and quite threatening. All my colleagues have noticed it.
What is most shocking is the serious mental health problems that these people suffer with. It is noticeably worse than before.
They seem to have nowhere to go.
It is both terribly sad and frightening.

LifeIsWhat

<span class="italic">I am shocked and what genuinely puzzles me is: Isn't California a democratic party state? And the democratic party in the US is all for equality and tax the rich and look after the poor? Also, aren't Apple, Google - the big tech companies support the democratic party to look after the poor (sorry for the paraphrasing)?</span>
<span class="italic">How come the reality is like this?</span>

You are completely and utterly wrong on every single assumption here, including the description of California as a Democratic state.

Have you ever heard of Ronald Reagan? Richard Nixon?

real socialism doesn't work anyway (USSR, Cuba, Venezuela etc).

The confusion of the Soviet system and Venezuela with 'socialism' is a pretty serious mistake.

For examples of socialism in action, look to Sweden, Germany, Finland, and in fact most of northern/western Europe in the post WW2 era.

..what confuses me is the lack of understanding that a better society for all makes it better for you.

@ginnig - the rugged individualism comes from a particular strain of protestantism which conflates a strong work ethic with prosperity and prosperity with god's favour.

It's a very smug sort of circular reasoning, which is also shaped by assumptions associated with race - the visible poor tend to be black, so therefore there is something wrong with black people, and since hard work is redemptive, improving the social welfare safety net will only keep them in their state of degeneration.

When you see material poverty as evidence of moral turpitude you will find it easy to condemn a huge number of people for moral failings, and you don't see money as a way to help the poor.

Redemption is a huge theme in the American imagination. But the flip side of redemption is condemnation, and that plays a big part in the American mindset.

I'm also surprised to hear about tent cities in London. Certainly during the 1st lockdown a concerted effort was made to bring the rough sleepers in off the streets and let them stay in all the empty hotels.

Thanks to charities like St Mungos, The Passage and Centre Point, not to mention the dear old Salvation Army, London has enough hostel beds and shelters for all the street sleepers. Those who stay outside are almost always doing so through choice. Ime street sleeping has become less of an issue in London in the 36 years I've lived here.

I was shocked at the homelessness in San Fransisco when I visited in 1998. "America is the greatest country in the world" is patent nonsense.

Liberal left state for you. There are many problems and the same liberals are leaving in droves to red states like Texas. It is so sad that such a great city has been destroyed by idealists and extremists. San Francisco is the same. I know a few families from wealthy areas that left. I went before COVID and it was bad but it seems is unbearable to live there now.

For the poster who say California is not a democratic state. Are you for real? See the elections results for the last several elections? How can you even suggest those policies come from Republicans? What are trying to do? Unbelievable.

See for instance this guy and check his background. He worked for Chavez in Venezuelan. www.recallchesaboudin.org/ From a family of communists terrorists. Come on,

@LINABE

My Job takes me to the States all the time. San Francisco has been going downhill for years and parts of downtown in the middle of the tourist areas really can be dangerous. People shooting up in front of you in broad daylight, muggings, human feces on the pavement...since COVID it is far worse. The same goes for some areas of LA. Manhattan - parts of Midtown now also feel unsafe partly due to a huge absence of tourists and office workers which has led to so many shut down/derelict hotels/shops/restaurants/bars etc. Although there have always been issues with downtown LA and San Francisco it now feels much worse, unsafe and quite threatening. All my colleagues have noticed it. What is most shocking is the serious mental health problems that these people suffer with. It is noticeably worse than before. They seem to have nowhere to go. It is both terribly sad and frightening.

Yes, check which party run these cities.