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Forgotten people, assumed names, secrets and mysteries

93 replies

BigPantsOnFire · 13/12/2021 11:07

I apologise in advance for what may be a slightly odd post; I have been mulling over several connected things over the last few days and so rather than there being one specific story or topic, I'm looking to have more of a wide ranging discussion with anyone who is interested- and possibly hear similar stories.

The other day, I was poking around on one of genealogy sites, having forked out for a month's subscription. Once I had looked at my own family for a bit, I got bored and found myself wondering what I could look into next.

So I thought of Robin. Growing up, my father had a friend he had met when he was at University who used to come and stay with us. He was an oddball, and the joke in my family was that if you dared to mention his name, he would telephone within the day and come for a visit. He never gave away any details about where he lived, or if he had any sort of personal life, or extended family. There was always some sort of eccentric mission that would explain his need to visit the area. We knew his name, and we had a very brief back story (from a vaguely aristocratic line, his father was a vicar with a private 'living' on an estate somewhere in England, where he had grown up).

The last contact we had with him was around the time that my father was dying in 2009. Unfortunately, he rang repeatedly and badgered my mother- telling her that she had to take him to a specific specialist who he had researched. She ended up yelling at him and hanging up.
We never had any way of contacting him, aside from a 'mail drop' sort of situation, care of the University that he still had a link to.

Anyway. I had always been curious about him- and his name was so unusual that I thought that it would be extremely easy to find him or his aristocratic family on the genealogy site.

But there was no result for that name: or, there was, for a different spelling, but only one- for a wedding. I knew he had been married once, and all the other details fit, so I searched with the new spelling. Still nothing. Idly, I searched the Web in general- and got a hit in a Guardian article.

It turned out, he had died in a nursing home in the city I was living at the time. Not only that- the entire premise of the story was that when he had died, the home had discovered that he was living under an assumed name- a different one to the one we knew. The police were called in to establish his identity. Eventually, they were able to do so. It turned out that he was actually from Italy, and had fled with his mother in 1939. His father stayed behind and died in Auschwitz. (Before that, his mother remarried- one could assume that she thought he was already dead).

My DH remarked that he thought that a lot of people reinvented themselves in order to deal with the trauma of WW2. I think he's probably right- and of course in those days and until very recently there were far fewer ways to be found out. In a wider sense, I can't help thinking about all the people who live on only in random anecdotes (we have a couple in my family that probably date back to the 1880s that I might be the last to tell, for example). Genealogy sites really only give you the basics- and so much falls between the cracks, so how can you possibly ever really know who someone was?

I would be fascinated to hear any similar stories, if you have them- or even your random crazy family stories that will be forgotten after you.

OP posts:
OVienna · 15/12/2021 17:12

One of the most memorable Who Do You Think You Are? episodes was with Kim Cattrall who found out her grandfather was a bigamist. This was in 1939 too. Left his first family behind in poverty, married in another English county. Didn't even change his details.

I am sure when I originally saw this she got to meet some great aunts and I really suspected they knew what he was up to.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 15/12/2021 17:36

[quote OVienna]One of the most memorable Who Do You Think You Are? episodes was with Kim Cattrall who found out her grandfather was a bigamist. This was in 1939 too. Left his first family behind in poverty, married in another English county. Didn't even change his details.

I am sure when I originally saw this she got to meet some great aunts and I really suspected they knew what he was up to.

[/quote] An interesting addendum to this story is that as a result of the show there was a massive row over a family grave to which she'd added her name, despite not actually being dead and the title "Liverpool's Cleopatra" having played the role at a local theatre.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/kim-cattrall-forced-remove-wavertree-15877063.amp

Corbally · 15/12/2021 18:05

That’s fascinating, @EineReiseDurchDieZeit! And deeply cringeworthy! Even leaving aside the astonishing lack of self-awareness of describing yourself on a gravestone as ‘the Liverpool Cleopatra’ (as if no one else had ever played it there), the idea of adding yourself to someone else’s headstone (and in fact replacing the headstone in order to fit your name in!) with the intention of being buried in the plot without consulting the family in question — she’d never even met these cousins! — is outrageous. Imagine, as her cousin did, going to visit your mother’s grave on Christmas Day and finding the headstone had been replaced by someone you’d never met…?

She was made to replace it by the ecclesiastical court, but it’s pretty insensitive stuff.

OVienna · 15/12/2021 22:21

So Kim did this to her grandfather's family? If you haven't seen the show I really advise you to. I had so many questions about what the grandfather's family thought had happened to her grandfather's first wife. He'd had his first baby with the bigamous wife before he'd left her grandma. They were in abject poverty, his new family looked very well looked after. Wonder if Kim did that for a wind up.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 15/12/2021 23:08

I saw the program at broadcast, and it was fascinating but my favourite will always be Danny Dyer but I would have no idea which relative it is now

PriamFarrl · 15/12/2021 23:20

There was someone who was lined up to go on WDYTYA but they didn’t find anything interesting so never filmed it.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 15/12/2021 23:22

Michael Parkinson I think Priam.

LuluBlakey1 · 15/12/2021 23:40

I like to research my family tree sideways as well as directly. I have found lots of things that have intrigued, shocked or saddened me.

One of my great grandad's had a brother who just disappeared from all records. I had assumed he must have died and I could not find the death record. Turned out he had been tried for rape and found not guilty, married, emigrated to Australia - all within a year- had 4 children in the next 5 years, he was then in a hospital suffering depression and heart failure and alcoholism and at 32 threw himself into a river and drowned. His wife meanwhile had been arrested numerous times for prostitution, drunken disorderly behaviour, assaulting policemen, running a brothel and was eventually imprisoned. She died of alcoholism.
The 4 children were found abandoned by a neighbour with the 6 and 7 year old looking after the 2 and 3 year old. They were put into a children's home and amazingly all adopted locally and all went on to make a success of their lives.
One of their grandaughter's got in touch with me and shared all the documents and photos. It was an amazing story- sad, shocking and then so heartwarming in the end. I have no idea how he turned out like that, or his wife. They both came from families where there was no other evidence of problems or trouble with the police. I wonder if his family here ever knew about it- it has not been passed down if they did.

LuluBlakey1 · 15/12/2021 23:56

[quote OVienna]One of the most memorable Who Do You Think You Are? episodes was with Kim Cattrall who found out her grandfather was a bigamist. This was in 1939 too. Left his first family behind in poverty, married in another English county. Didn't even change his details.

I am sure when I originally saw this she got to meet some great aunts and I really suspected they knew what he was up to.

[/quote] I have found two examples of this recently in my wider family.

My great-uncle married a woman whose father did this. He went to work in London leaving a wife and three children in the 1930s and never came back. He married another woman in London and had 3 more children and lived a happily married life until his death in the 1980s. His daughter from the second marriage apparently contacted my great-aunt by letter after his death-who would be her half-sister -and asked if she was related to him and she replied saying no because after all those years she 'didn't want any fuss'.

My great-grandma had a sister and I found her on the 1911 census recored as living with her parents but as married and with a different surname. I found the marriage record from 1908. By 1911 he was living about 10 miles away working on a farm and had recorded himself as single. He had a very unusual name - definitely him. He then married again about 3 years later - never divorcing first wife. His second wife was also still married. They married each other, moved to London, had two daughters and lived happily until their deaths in the 1960s and are buried together. I don't think their daughters know to this day. Lots of photos of them posted on ancestry.Meanwhile my great-grandma's sister never married or had another relationship again and everyone thought of her as a spinster.
Divorce was difficult to come by and people just moved on and started again.

gelert5619 · 16/12/2021 01:27

My sister uses the Mormon ancestry site. It's free and anyone can use it. Good luck everyone.

WeatherwaxOn · 21/12/2021 09:02

Lulu I have researched my tree sideways too. Found a few (not famous but known in their time) military band leaders, composers and musicians. Also the man who wrote 'Colonel Bogey'. He's not a direct ancestor but is definitely my family tree.
There is also a family line who seem to have a particular talent, and that same talent and surname turn up in MILs family. Four generations back and so far I haven't found a link, but there are quite a few people I haven't yet looked at in detail.

Things I would like to solve.
Why Gt-gt grandparents came from the Scottish Highlands to Tottenham, North London. A family legend says they walked in a fortnight, but unless they were covering over 40 miles a day, which seems highly unlikely, how they could afford it is also a mystery.
Why another gt-grandparent came to London from rural Somerset. Legend says they didn't get on with their stepmother, but research has shown they didn't have a stepmother - they were the only surviving child of their father's second marriage. How they met their spouse is a mystery too. 1901 they are in a town close to where they were born.1902 they get married in London. 2 months later their first child was born.

Abraxan · 21/12/2021 09:27

I do a lot of genealogy stuff on ancestry in my spare time.

We discovered some interesting (to,us) family stories.

My great great grandfather was a bigamist, second family,living in nearby town. He eventually abandoned my great great grandmother for them. He was given a 'hard labour' sentence for abandonment and bigamy.

One of dh's relatives had apparently emigrated to Australia, leaving his family behind. Turned out he was living a second life about 50 miles away with another partner and family. Years later, one day turned up in first family's doorstep as if nothing had happened and expected to be let back in.

applesapplesapples · 21/12/2021 09:36

Anyone got any tips for handling my neurotic helicopter Mum of a SIL who’s joing us for Christmas this year? Without fail, every single visit descends into a drama revolving around her kids.

Whether it’s one of them having a meltdown/prolonged crying until appeased or her constantly breaking away from conversation to needlessly intervene, she drives me nuts. I feel like saying “FFS give your kids some space and let them be kids”. Obvs I can’t but bloody hell, when did this become a thing?

JosephineDeBeauharnais · 21/12/2021 09:41

My BiL lived with his male partner for years until the partner died suddenly. Turned out that the DP had been living under an assumed name and all of the details of his life that he’d shared with BiL were lies. His whole life was a lie. We still don’t really know everything.

BigPantsOnFire · 21/12/2021 09:54

@JosephineDeBeauharnais oh no- your poor BIL! That must have been a really awful discovery for him. Was he able to find a real name?

OP posts:
SkyLarkDescending · 21/12/2021 11:11

A couple of years ago DH heard a strange story from his DB that their DGrandmother had been married before she was with his grandfather - to his grandfathers brother! It turns out the original husband died, leaving his wife on her own. His own brother (DH grandfather) stepped in and took on the family. I suppose it was more common in those days. DGrandmother has recently passed away at the age of 104 so am wondering if any more details will appear!

cortex10 · 21/12/2021 13:53

WDYTTA do a lot of up front research before selecting the celebrity stories to screen https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/who-do-you-think-you-are-stars-rejectedukk_6040ead2c5b6d7794ae481ea/

JosephineDeBeauharnais · 21/12/2021 16:08

[quote BigPantsOnFire]@JosephineDeBeauharnais oh no- your poor BIL! That must have been a really awful discovery for him. Was he able to find a real name?[/quote]
Yes, we discovered his real name and real family who turned up at the funeral mob-handed to claim their inheritance. They’d been given to understand that BiL was wealthy and had given DP half of his house. Except BiL lives in a rented apartment. Family refused to believe him and it all kicked off - literally handbags outside the wake HmmConfused.
It was all extremely upsetting as you can imagine.

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