Mask compliance in UK vs abroad

[FabricedeSauveterre]

I’m in Italy at the moment and am struck by the difference in mask compliance. In the UK it seems like there are a lot of sunflower lanyards and non mask wearers, even before the relaxation of the rules which might have made us all lax. In Italy I have noticed precisely zero adults without masks. It seems totally socially unacceptable and is strictly enforced. Only very small children without masks on and the occasional rebel pops their nose out.

If you are in a different country what have you noticed about mask compliance?

I am not criticising or doubting those who say they can’t wear masks and have exceptions btw but am interested why we find that socially acceptable or have legislation for medical exemptions to mask wearing but other countries don’t accept it.

@Tal45

I don't think any other country in the world has quite the number of self entitled pricks we do here to be fair. Social responsibility for this sort of thing doesn't exist - so in the end it has to be made compulsory.

100%

And the whining...🙄

@gofg

Compliance in those places where you have to wear one is high here in the SI of NZ. On the street, less people unless they are going between shops.

I'm in the SI too and it's the same in my town. good compliance, and few complaints.

High compliance in Wellington too - even though at Orange traffic light the requirements are less, I haven’t seen anyone really alter wearing them.

@Vintagevixen

It's not exceptionalism - it's because some of us are capable of reading the "evidence" at its academic source and realising how massively flimsy it is. Really happy I don't live in New York if they are masking 2 year olds - that is shocking.

Paging the population of Sweden!

Who have never had compulsory masks and have a lower death rate than many many European countries and at present a very flat positivity rate in terms of testing. But how can this be true?! They have no masks - they must all be dead!

Sweden has had a higher COVID rate overall than the mask wearing countries like Spain and France.

Given the fact Boris Johnson has a relaxed attitude to mask wearing as do many MPs when in the H of C why would we expect the public to follow the guidelines. The government set a dreadful example - unlike many of countries. I personally disagree with mask wearing but have followed the guidelines until now - not sure if I will from now on though

This is the perfect example of how social media like MN is a totally unreliable form of factual information. Really it's just anecdotal and can be skewed by personal bias or experience. I'm 100% sure neither poster is lying.

Poster A
One of my team just returned back from Tampa and NYC and she said mask wearing seems to be entirely personal choice (which people elect not to do mostly).
In NYC some restaurants don’t want a mask but prefer a vaccine certificate, others don’t care if you’re masked or not etc.
Very variable as to use or requirement to wear one depending on where you go.

Poster B
New York last month, complete compliance. No exemptions, kids over 2 asked to wear masks in many shops.

My English friend went to Scotland in the summer and was shocked at all the mask wearing, a lack of sunflower lanyards and shops serving outside (small town).

In France you have to have a doctors letter explaining exactly why you can’t wear a mask.!

East Coast Canada and everyone is still masking up in shops etc. Think they're still mandatory. DS has to wear one in school (he's 7)

@poppy235

This is how you achieve compliance. Fairly, with exemptions for those who need them.

This is a much better way of doing it.

The absolute selfishness of a significant number of people in this country when asked to do something pretty minor for the sake of other people including those most vulnerable, has astounded me.

I recently spent 7 weeks in Germany mostly in Bavaria. Mask wearing was required in shops and other indoor venues. I didn’t see any non-compliance. We also had to provide proof of vaccination in restaurants.

@Vintagevixen

It's not exceptionalism - it's because some of us are capable of reading the "evidence" at its academic source and realising how massively flimsy it is. Really happy I don't live in New York if they are masking 2 year olds - that is shocking.

Paging the population of Sweden!

Who have never had compulsory masks and have a lower death rate than many many European countries and at present a very flat positivity rate in terms of testing. But how can this be true?! They have no masks - they must all be dead!

Cannot believe people are still using the "but Sweden!" trope. Comparing Sweden and England (not the UK) is like comparing a lemon to an overripe pear and using the pear as "proof" that lemons are really sweet.

There is a lot of useful data to have come out of Sweden, (the influence of population behaviour being probably the most valid- Swedes being generally naturally likely to be socially responsible- the other being how, during the first waves, Swedish scientists accepted that Sweden's decisions were wrong and very much not to be held up as an example)

You've read no valid evidence that masks, worn correctly, don't work either.

@Squills

I recently spent 7 weeks in Germany mostly in Bavaria. Mask wearing was required in shops and other indoor venues. I didn’t see any non-compliance. We also had to provide proof of vaccination in restaurants.

I imagine if you don’t comply you get every passing Oma berating you for your behaviour. Germans are very good at handing out bollockings to complete strangers

Here in Manchester it’s about 40-50% of people wearing masks in shops etc although my friend who lives in the poshest area of Manchester says they are much more mask-compliant there.

The evidence now shows that masks are useful so we should all be wearing one. I notice that in 2020, there were shop workers on the door of my big Tesco to encourage people to wear masks but now no one cares.

Mistlewoeandwhine it’s not we don’t care, it’s because we’re not paid enough (usually minimum wage) to police the wearing of masks. The abuse some of us received for asking people to wear a mask was unbelievable!

@A596881B

Mistlewoeandwhine it’s not we don’t care, it’s because we’re not paid enough (usually minimum wage) to police the wearing of masks. The abuse some of us received for asking people to wear a mask was unbelievable!

Sorry, I worded that badly. I totally get why shop workers wouldn’t police masks themselves. It’s too risky. There should be people to do it though, like bouncers.

@Mistlewoeandwhine I love that idea, bouncers - preferably with big sticks they can hit the noncompliant with? Or would that be too far?

Yes I am being facetious - but where would you draw the line? Not at guards and a two tier society, apparently...

The bouncers could say:

“Your masks not on, you’re not coming in”.

Personally, I’d draw the line at people actually giving a fuck about others and not crying “fascism” at every minor inconvenience.

[quote ShiftingSands21]@sunshinelover69 it’s true you probably wouldn’t get bothered here.

But dear people of England, know also that we Scots are definitely exaggerating our mask compliance. My commute on the bus it’s like half and half? None in theatre cinemas etc once people get through the door. Shops maybe, a mixed bag. Neither do I know a single person following our test twice a week now upgraded to whenever you leave the house guidance. So take it with a pinch of salt![/quote]
I'm sorry, what? Test whenever you leave the house?! Like anyone's gonna do that.

Whats with the fruit comparisons?!! We're not discussing fruit here!

lots of valid comparisons for Sweden. They have steered a completely different path - no strict lockdown etc and still have a lower death rate than countries with much stricter restrictions. Very normal life - lots of stuff remained open etc.

Density of Stockholm is comparable to London.

They cocked up with care homes just like us and have admitted it.
Positive tests are increasing but so are ours - this is a seasonal virus.

They also never closed schools - just sent sick kids home.

They never had mandatory masks. Chile have had mandatory masks and one of the worlds strictest lockdowns - with one of the highest death rates in South America!

Swedish response has been led by public health officials and it shows thank god for the swedes I say.

And yes - I've gone into Medrix and the other online academic research engines. I've read DANMASK and all the other papers - so yes I've read no evidence that they don't work but also no evidence that they DO work. Complete lack of RCT's on mask wearing in the community (not labs) - so it's a NPI that is based on incredibly flimsy "evidence."

Feel free to go to Medrix, google academic and all other search engines for at source academic write ups to read, critique and make your own mind up.

Also - think I am correct in saying that Scotland never abandoned masks on July 19th like England - so how come their positivity was running higher than unmasked England over the summer?

How come there were 131 acute Sars Covid 2 outbreaks in care homes in the latest week (ONS stats) - the places where everyone is wearing masks?

How come the ONS has recorded huge rises in HmPV and Rhinovirus - other respiratory viruses spread in the same way as Covid. Should masks not work for those if they work for Covid?

So many questions huh? All stats checkable on latest ONS report.

I counted mask wearers on my (London) bus home last night. Out of 15 passengers 4 weren't wearing masks. Almost 25% so unlikely they were all exempt.

I feel so sorry for people who are genuinely exempt.

@Vintagevixen

Also - think I am correct in saying that Scotland never abandoned masks on July 19th like England - so how come their positivity was running higher than unmasked England over the summer?

How come there were 131 acute Sars Covid 2 outbreaks in care homes in the latest week (ONS stats) - the places where everyone is wearing masks?

How come the ONS has recorded huge rises in HmPV and Rhinovirus - other respiratory viruses spread in the same way as Covid. Should masks not work for those if they work for Covid?

So many questions huh? All stats checkable on latest ONS report.

The impact of individual and group behaviour probably. As many (correctly) note- masks need to be medically approved ones and used correctly. (There's another thread where posters are telling someone to wrap a scarf round her face for example) Hygiene, social distancing, fudging of test results. Not doing a test when you've had a close contact etc. Masks aren't a silver bullet. They're one important part of it.

@Vintagevixen

Whats with the fruit comparisons?!! We're not discussing fruit here!

lots of valid comparisons for Sweden. They have steered a completely different path - no strict lockdown etc and still have a lower death rate than countries with much stricter restrictions. Very normal life - lots of stuff remained open etc.

Density of Stockholm is comparable to London.

They cocked up with care homes just like us and have admitted it.
Positive tests are increasing but so are ours - this is a seasonal virus.

They also never closed schools - just sent sick kids home.

They never had mandatory masks. Chile have had mandatory masks and one of the worlds strictest lockdowns - with one of the highest death rates in South America!

Swedish response has been led by public health officials and it shows thank god for the swedes I say.

And yes - I've gone into Medrix and the other online academic research engines. I've read DANMASK and all the other papers - so yes I've read no evidence that they don't work but also no evidence that they DO work. Complete lack of RCT's on mask wearing in the community (not labs) - so it's a NPI that is based on incredibly flimsy "evidence."

Feel free to go to Medrix, google academic and all other search engines for at source academic write ups to read, critique and make your own mind up.

Because comparing Sweden with anywhere other than, at a push, Norway, Denmark etc is literally like comparing apples and cheese. At least if you compare fellow Scandinavian countries you're comparing very similar countries. You'll have seen also that of the Scandinavian countries, Sweden has consistently had both higher positivity rates, higher numbers per 100,000 and a higher death rate than its neighbours, despite having localised lockdowns when things really got out of hand. The Swedish govt itself has acknowledged many times their experiment failed and is not an example they'd advise any other country to follow.

Went to see my sis in Spain. Great mask compliance and distance and no whinging. It’s enforced. She has a shop and she will be fined if someone without a mask is in there when the police pop in so, for instance if you refuse you don’t go in - or if you are one of her old regular expats she’ll get your stuff and bring it out if it’s just a pint of milk etc.

Scotland in the summer was actually very good with no fuss too.

I wouldn't say it's selfish when there are so many scientists/immunologists/virologists who say they don't work & can be damaging to your own lungs with long-term use. When the government say it's such a concern that we must wear them in certain places, but nightclubs are still open to all? Does the virus not get you there then? After all the recent party scams that have come out from the government, I think it's pretty silly anyone still blindly following their rules when they clearly don't believe they're necessary themselves... people are starting to wake up

@ThrobbingToothacheOfTheMind

In what way have masks helped these other countries? Spain and Italy were worse than the UK

They were worse at the beginning when masks were almost impossible to come by. Spain is currently doing a lot better than the Uk and in Spain you have to wear a masks at all indoor settings and schools have to wear them all the time too. Until the summer they were obligatory in all outdoor settings too.