How much would you charge for writing training?

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My friend is a generic trainer in our field. She trains in CPD rather than actual quals. It is quite a specialist field, requires a professional qualification to practice etc. I have done up to L8 in it and work in research now, not practice. My friend has a L5 (degree). She has asked me to write full training packages for her if she is less confident, it needs more specialism or if the training requires more depth. I do all the research, writing, resources, references and graphic design. I have done about 4 or 5 over the last year. I work FT, have DC so I squeeze in this extra work evenings and weekends. She currently pays me approx £80-100 a day ish. About £250 per package. Wondering if this is in the right ball park? TIA.

I'd work out how many hours it takes you and then how much is reasonable to charge per hour. Hourly rate will depend on the specialism of course, and your experience.

Way under. I've not worked freelance but have worked writing training. This basically equates to £24K a year (using the top level of money you gave). I was on this more than ten years ago in a small town up north. I also had a number of excellent benefits (health, holiday, really good office environment - think free food and drink, free training, staff games room, pension etc).
A friend of mine set his own management training up at £1K a day fifteen years ago.
I think you need to factor in a buffer for sick pay, holidays etc.
Are you doing all the research? Again, in my previous role I would only do a bit of the research, mostly I was directed by a Training Officer or Business Partner. I would decide on layout, pictures, writing, feedback and assessment but I'd have regular meetings to guide me.

I agree: she is hugely underpaying you. I would say £250-300 per day.

MThis package I have just finished has 25 sildes, with full trainer notes, 19 references, 2 videos and about 5/6 group activities. 8 subheadings. I wrote the learning aims/objectives. It has taken me 3 days in total.

Does that change anyone's POV?

I used to deliver whole-day workshops in writing for a particular professional context, and I was paid £400/day (this was a few years ago). That covered the cost of preparing the materials and delivering the workshop to 8-12 people. Obviously, I spent 2 or 3 days preparing the first time I did the workshop, but thereafter, I just updated my handouts/slides and used what I already had.

Pricing services is so tricky, isn't it!

I'm not a trainer but I have done freelance projects where you charge not only for the project but also the value it brings to the client, for example in future revenue, and this feels like it's way under for all the work you do particularly if it's a specialist field.

Is the training session run once only or run multiple times, and do the trainees pay to attend? If it's paid-for, she'll probably be making quite a chunk of money from your work each time.

I work in the charity sector and the going rate for paying trainers is £500-£750 per day.

You are a bargain.

It will be run multiple times, with a range of local authorities I imagine. The delegates are professionals who attend lots of training as CPD, to prove competencies etc.

Hmm, it sounds like I might have to have a word with my friend. So tricky! We started off as colleagues but now have a friendship spanning over a decade so I will have to tread carefully but I worked out I spent 21 hours ish on this last project. So even if she gives me £300, it works out at £9.52 an hour. I paid £10k for my knowledge (university fees, I am old ) so I need to be a bit more assertive I think!

For specialist knowledge and skills that took a long time to accumulate and can't be easily replicated by advertising in the local paper and getting 40 suitable candidates who can do it instead of you - you should be charging at least £80 ph for your time. You can go way higher than that the more qualifications and experience you have.

Well, I have doctorate level quals and a 20 year career under my belt so I definitely need to pull my finger out and talk to her. I am not great at self belief but its time to put on my adult hat and do it I think.

I think starting from your hourly rate is a great place to start.

I'm a copywriter and I don't work for less than £50ph - there's loads of work out there that pays less but I'm not interested in it and would rather spend one hour earning £50 and watch Netflix than graft for 5 hours to earn the same £50.

That's straightforward copying: ie someone gives me a bunch of content or tells me what they want to say and I turn it into words. There may be a little bit of research but not masses.

I do deliver bespoke training and I charge nearer £80ph for working on those projects.

She is absolutely taking the mick.

I would be charging about 250 per day and im easy to pay! Colleagues charge closer to 500.....

Thanks all. The package I just wrote is so good, even if I do say so myself, I can imagine a practitioner getting loads out of it and using it to achieve more tangible, behaviour change outcomes. The last one I wrote for her got great feedback too. So it kind of prompted me to think of the value of it and you have all encouraged me to assess that more thank you!

Are there any groups within your specialism you could reach out to to better gauge how they charge for things like this? There are some on Facebook for mine which is useful, and helps with imposter syndrome when you realise some people charge a huge amount more without blinking.

If it helps the conversation, you could say that you've recently reviewed your pricing and you'll be increasing it to the market rate from January. It feels less immediate, even though realistically it'll probably affect her next project.

If she's not a fan of the new price and it works for you, could you offer different levels of package, ie 25 slides and 5/6 activities etc is full price at £X, 16 slides and 4 activities is 80% of the full price, 8 slides and 2 activities is 60% of full price etc? I imagine you'd still need to do a fair amount of research for them, so make sure that's still covered, but it's more cost-effective for her to pay full price for the full service :)

Please do factor in that she'll be running the training multiple times whenever she likes, unless you treat it like a licence and for £X she can run it X number of times, then she has to pay more if she wants to run it again. Speaking to other trainer writers on this would help understand how they structure their project pricing - I'm sorry I'm not one!

Question - would you want to run training yourself? Sounds like you have the skills! :)

I missed your last post, sorry. Really good to hear you're seeing the value of what you do!

One way is work out your hourly rate (what you want to be paid for the work) + the cost of resources and materials (including subscriptions, electricity, printing costs, any insurance or training, membership to professional body or organisation, even a couple of pennies towards Microsoft office subscription or whatever your using to write it up).

Another is to look at what other people are charging for similar work (try and find someone with similar experience and background).

The best way IMO is to use both of those. Work out the market rate, what you want to earn and what your costs are. The first gives you a ball park, the second gives you a minimum.

Thanks, that sliding scale is a great suggestion!

I will definitely look at general costs for per day training in the field, thats a great idea. Shouldn't be too hard to find as it is all public sector work.

No, I wouldn't be a trainer. I am not really a performer, I prefer the reading, thinking and writing bit. My proper job is writing research reports and analysing data, I like not talking to people

Because this isn't my main work I don't have pricing etc. It was just me doing a favour for her writing bids that turned into writing full packages. I did the same thing with bloody wedding photography (I am very handy with a camera) - started doing it for friends and family but they paid me in 'gifts' instead of cash and took the piss!

(I need assertiveness training!)

Haha, I appreciate not talking to people, and needing assertiveness training!

Good luck with everything :)

That's ridiculously low. I would charge a lot more.

Would she be open for a partnership model??

So you could say "you are woefully underpaying me - but if that's all you can afford I would consider it if you give me 20/40/50% of your profits from the training courses it is used in..

Then it's a passive income stream which is nirvana in freelancing if you ask me

I don't think there is much chance of diverting any of her profits my way tbh. She is doing pretty well post covid, so I imagine she will want to retain that. This started as a favour for a friend who was establishing her business tbh but is increasing in frequency; I have under estimated the volume of work and the quality of my output and set a precedent for being paid nominally. That is on me. I think I just need to say 'I can only make this work for me if I charge X per hour' and leave her with the decision from that point.