Page 2 | Do you think homophobia is more accepted than racism?

Original poster

CanIEatPringlesYet · 01/12/2021 19:00

@kalidasa, only you know if you truly are homophobic, but saying you disapprove with celebrations such as Pride because of your views on sexual morality

OP posts:

ArblemarchTFruitbat · 01/12/2021 19:04

If you consider the media, racism as acceptable entertainment died out in the 1980s, but homophobia as a legitimate comedy source persisted well into the 2000s.

I'm not sure 'acceptable' is the right word for either in 2021 - I think both persist in our society (sadly) and it's hard to say which is more prevalent.

Iamnotthe1 · 01/12/2021 19:06

I agree. I'm a teacher and I run a voluntary youth organisation. There are people I know who don't believe that I should do either purely on the basis that I'm gay and, in their opinion, gay people shouldn't work with children.

kalidasa · 01/12/2021 19:12

Well for instance I don't think it's ok to parade fetishes in public where children may be exposed to them. I don't think most sexual fetishes are healthy things to be celebrated even though they're a fact of human sexuality. I don't think pornography is ever ok and one aspect of Pride celebrations seems (to me) to be celebrating and endorsing pornography of various types. I approve of committed relationships but I think casual sex (of any type) is mostly a bad thing and not something to glorify. I really don't think these are actually very unusual views and I don't think they make me homophobic but of course others may disagree.

bicyclesaredeathtraps · 01/12/2021 19:14

I don't like to compare bigotry. I'm white so can't speak on the that score. But as someone who's lgbtq and multiply disabled, I'd say ableism is wayy more prevalent than homophobia and it also affects my life more. Generally speaking, because I'm lucky enough to live somewhere with low levels of homophobic hate crime, homophobic attitudes upset me, whereas ableism stops me going about my daily life as I would like to. Also totally acceptable as a comedic punchline even in shows that wouldn't use anything else in the same way (for example, brooklyn 99 is about the wokest show going, but still makes jokes about OCD)

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur · 01/12/2021 19:18

@CorrBlimeyGG

you can't really "disagree" with race.

There are still plenty that disagree with "multiculturalism". They claim it's not racist because they "just like things the way they've always been".

Most people that hold these views hold negative stereotypes about anyone that does not act/ think like them.

Yes that's true. I knew as I wrote it that I was missing something and couldn't work out what!

BiBabbles · 01/12/2021 19:52

I think people will see more of what they face more and trying to make it a comparison game does little of benefit. It's also likely to change by environment and what those in power take seriously rather than universal. Really, I think socially things have built up that being accused of being racist/homophobic/similar is the worst attack on an individual, but actually discussing those actions and language tends to be far less around.

My DD1 has dealt with an issue in school with her peers mocking and bullying about her heritage and accent, and far too many of the staff seem to think complimenting what was insulted or dismissing that it isn't that serious is how to deal with it. Basically, unless an actual slur gets used or there is a threat, there is very much of a 'it's a difference of opinion, just love who you are' attitude. When similar remarks have been made about sexuality, there were several assemblies about it and resources signposted - whether that did much was debatable, but it made their priorities clear. It's been disheartening for my DD1 at times.

And while I hear few remarks about mixed race relationships, I still hear remarks about having kids (though that's as much an intracultural issue as a racist one) and in immigration discussions, there are still 'opinions' on who the UK should prioritize and allow that are largely based on race, sometimes with a bit of racialized religion thrown in there too.

TheRigatonini · 01/12/2021 19:54

Yes I agree. Sexism is persistently trivialised too.

Tenfifteen · 01/12/2021 20:28

I really don’t like trying to come up with a hierarchy - although I don’t believe there’s ill intent in the thread OP.

But I think the short answer is no I don’t agree. Look at outcomes and consequences for people with different protected characteristics and I think that will tell you a lot about society, what is valued and what it thinks is acceptable. For the avoidance of doubt I’ve no truck with casual homophobia and happily tell homophobes to fuck off. But I think the disparity in outcomes is a better way to to consider what is and isn’t accepted.

Tenfifteen · 01/12/2021 20:39

Yes @BiBabbles totally with you. I don’t get why people are more concerned about being called a racist compared to actual racism.

To be honest I wish racists would just own there stuff. If you don’t want to be called a racist, stop doing racist shit! Why are you offended to be named by your actions? Why invent things that you claim have been “banned” when no-one actually cares?

Pinkrose1111 · 01/12/2021 20:53

I HATE it when people compare being black to being gay. The 2 have nothing to do with eachother literally ZERO correlation. And alot of people say oh I wouldn't marry out of my race or marrying outside of our culture isn't accepted. This isn't racism it's just a preference. I understand what you're trying to say, but please get your point across without dragging race/ being black into it.

mordinvasnormandy · 01/12/2021 20:55

@Pinkrose1111

I HATE it when people compare being black to being gay. The 2 have nothing to do with eachother literally ZERO correlation. And alot of people say oh I wouldn't marry out of my race or marrying outside of our culture isn't accepted. This isn't racism it's just a preference. I understand what you're trying to say, but please get your point across without dragging race/ being black into it.

Both racism and homophobia are prejudice against people for their innate characteristics though.

Ozanj · 01/12/2021 21:02

@CanIEatPringlesYet

Just that really. I do.

Whereas racism depressingly still seems to run through our society, as someone who has been in a same sex relationship for the past few years, I believe homophobia is much more accepted.

As an example, if someone is expressing their dislike for gay marriage, I have heard on several occasions something along the lines of "well I don't agree with them, I'm all for gay marriage personally, but they're entitled to their opinion".

Would you ever hear the same if someone said "well I don't agree with mixed race marriage" or "I don't believe in equal opportunities for black people"? Oh, it's just their opinion!! I don't think so, so when people say this about homophobia - blatant homophobia, why are some people still so quick to defend their right for their bigoted opinion?...

Speaking as a bisexual woman of colour I say you have no idea what you’re talking about. The racism people of colour face is insiduous and built into the fabric of society. If you then Add being female and not straight to the list I really am close to the bottom of the pile.

Elephantsparade · 01/12/2021 21:54

Ive changed my mind. I was limiting myself to thinking about playground taunts and things people are prepared to say out loud. But the last couple of posters made me think much more widely and i think that huge structural issues around race are accepted quite readily. And its daft to compare very different things.

Tenfifteen · 02/12/2021 06:46

@Elephantsparade I really appreciate you coming back to the thread to say so. It’s rare on the internet for people to say they’ve changed their mind.

voldr · 02/12/2021 11:04

@Pinkrose1111

I HATE it when people compare being black to being gay. The 2 have nothing to do with eachother literally ZERO correlation. And alot of people say oh I wouldn't marry out of my race or marrying outside of our culture isn't accepted. This isn't racism it's just a preference. I understand what you're trying to say, but please get your point across without dragging race/ being black into it.

What exactly do you hate about it?

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 02/12/2021 11:23

I HATE it when people compare being black to being gay. The 2 have nothing to do with eachother literally ZERO correlation.

What do you think about the CEO of Stonewall’s recent statement that being LGB - in the classic sense of only being interested in your own sex - is ‘sexual racism’ because it excludes trans people?

flopjustwantscoffee · 02/12/2021 13:37

Hmmm, I wonder if its that useful to compare them too much? I can see it can be useful as a way of analysing the problem/trying to get people to sympathise with one if they care about the other. But at the same time it risks setting the two issues up in competition to each other - and I really don't think this is one of the cases where its a zero sum game - so setting people against racism in a contest with people against homophobia in a game of who is the most oppressed feels a little self-defeating.

flopjustwantscoffee · 02/12/2021 13:38

@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

I HATE it when people compare being black to being gay. The 2 have nothing to do with eachother literally ZERO correlation.

What do you think about the CEO of Stonewall’s recent statement that being LGB - in the classic sense of only being interested in your own sex - is ‘sexual racism’ because it excludes trans people?

Ahhh, but I think we probably want to aim slightly higher than what would Stonewall do don't we?

TheRigatonini · 02/12/2021 14:02

@flopjustwantscoffee

Hmmm, I wonder if its that useful to compare them too much? I can see it can be useful as a way of analysing the problem/trying to get people to sympathise with one if they care about the other. But at the same time it risks setting the two issues up in competition to each other - and I really don't think this is one of the cases where its a zero sum game - so setting people against racism in a contest with people against homophobia in a game of who is the most oppressed feels a little self-defeating.

I think it’s more an observation that people don’t seem to take one as seriously as the other. I don’t think the OP is trying to ‘compete’ with other forms of discrimination.

FWIW I notice that sexism is often trivialised by comparison with other forms of discrimination. I wonder if this is because it is so endemic – those dynamics are present in every family on a micro level.

A few people have pointed out that it might be more useful to look at outcomes, access to resources, systematic unspoken discrimination, rather than just what people are prepared to say out loud. I’m curious if there’s a relationship between these two areas – ie the degree of taboo around discriminatory jokes etc. has some relationship to the degree of actual disparity in material outcomes / social capital between various groups. No idea if that holds but just curious if there is a relationship there.

flopjustwantscoffee · 02/12/2021 15:36

@TheRigatonini yes sorry, I wasn't trying to accuse anyone on the thread of trying to compete. I also re-read and maybe the phase "game of who is the most oppressed" sounded dismissive - it absolutely wasn't meant to. But I do think its really easy for this sort of thing to descend into a bun-fight, even where that wasn't the intention. Taboo around jokes is complicated because I think for a while there has been a feeling that you can get rid of the jokes/language and that will get rid of the problem. When really the language is more a symptom of the prejudice - so all that happens is it evolves and becomes more coded but the problems persist even under (for example) a layer of false progressivism.

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 02/12/2021 15:41

Ahhh, but I think we probably want to aim slightly higher than what would Stonewall do don't we?

Definitely can’t argue with that!