Can CAMHS do this?

[tallywag]

DS has been waiting for a referral to CAMHS for a long time. Has finally got an appointment and they have said that he will be offered CBT. But now they say they cannot give any indication at all when it might be? CAMHS manager can't even offer a ball park figure of whether it will be months or years. Which I think is pretty rubbish to be honest. It feels like he is just being put on hold until he ages out of the system. Is there any other way I can find out the length of the waiting lists for our area? Aren't they all supposed to have service targets or something? Thanks.

@stellaris if your dd's difficulties most impact her at school then you should make a request for a EHC needs assessment www.ipsea.org.uk/making-a-request-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment. If school have been supportive then they should have plenty of documentary evidence of needs and support given.

She used to get 1-1 sessions and did extra things like swimming or sessions with the SENCO staff. I'll look into that though.

It's just the typical ADHD symptoms means focussing is difficult and she always needs to sit by herself and get extra help. She'll finish primary in two years and I really worry that she'll be behind. I could have been more vocal and complained, but assumed that she got pushed down the queue because other children could need help more.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

I.work as a nurse practitioner in a GP and we dont even bother referring to them anymore.

We manage issues between school nurses and ourselves.

But school nurses aren't trained to provide specialist support for severe mental ill health ? And if you're not referring then it will look like there's not the need for Camhs . It's great if you can support with the school nurses while kids and young people are waiting to be seen but you should still be referring .

When you have a child with a disability you have to be a squeaky wheel I'm afraid. Unless you fight for your child you won't get the support your child needs. How quickly you learn this determines how soon your child gets support.
With an EHCP you have a legal document that means that if it states 1 to 1 is needed that is what will happen. If she needs targetted interventions, movement breaks, sensory circuits they have to be done.
Frankly you need to stop being so considerate and passive and start demanding and being more assertive.

I work in autism diagnostics. When I started 15 years ago in my town we got about 50 referrals a year. Now we get about 30 referrals a month. The resource (staff team) is the same. It's absolutely not about us being rubbish at our jobs or useless; it's about fitness for purpose. The same team with a seven-fold increase in workload? Of course waiting times will increase and parental and professional satisfaction decrease.

@lethargemarg why? To make them wait for 4 years with no help.

The area I live in have child mental health teams that work in schools alongside school nurses. The school nurses coodinate it.

If it looks like there is no need for CAHMS because this system works better, then good.

We’ve been in the same position as many on here.
It’s like they wait for the wheels to fall off before stepping in to repair a puncture.
It’s heartbreaking and as much as loathe myself for doing it we have paid to go privately to get dd seen.
We also got in touch with head start I think they were called, I can’t remember if they were a local or a national organisation and within about 3 weeks we had a counsellor arranged who has been hugely beneficial while we looked for alternatives.
Our county have a child’s mental health team that visit senior schools, dd didn’t seem to get much of a look in with them beyond the initial session. Not sure what happened there, I get the impression it was just not a good fit.
It’s the most desperate time, I’m so sorry that anyone has to go through this. We are still very much in the thick of it, going privately hasn’t ‘fixed’ dd, far from it, but we’ve got something permanent in place and she’s begun medication.
It took a few suicide attempts, some self harming and a consistently low mood of wanting to be dead to finally feel like we were making some kind of headway.
In our experience CAMHS is just not fit for purpose.
and a ginormous hug for absolutely everyone, you’re only ever as happy as your saddest child

The mental health teams in schools are for low to moderate mental health illness though. They're definitely a step in the right direction and great for supporting kids and young people at this level and hopefully will ease the pressure in Camhs waiting times and lists all I'm saying is for those with severe mental health issues it should still be referred to Camhs as these other teams are not trained to treat certain mental health illnesses.

I echo what everyone else says, due to staff shortages/underfunding etc the services see as many children as they can as soon as they are able in clinical priority order followed by referral date. Unfortunately waiting lists tend to be at least a year, probably more. For consultant led NHS services there is a 18 week target from referral to first treatment (which can sometimes just be a treatment plan) but unfortunately this cannot be met if the service doesn't have the suitable support. You could email PALS and quote NHS constitution, this might help you jump the queue but really services should stick to their access policy and book in chronological order. Make sure you call the secretaries to get added to a cancellation list, if they keep one.

@SusannahHolmes

I work in autism diagnostics. When I started 15 years ago in my town we got about 50 referrals a year. Now we get about 30 referrals a month. The resource (staff team) is the same. It's absolutely not about us being rubbish at our jobs or useless; it's about fitness for purpose. The same team with a seven-fold increase in workload? Of course waiting times will increase and parental and professional satisfaction decrease.

My son was diagnosed with Autism through a MDA at the Child Development Centre in 1998. He was on the cusp of the huge increase in children being referred for assessment. The team that diagnosed him were only a year earlier diagnosing 5 children a month, but by May 98 diagnosing 5 children a week. These were children nursery and pre school age. His paediatrician and the team were alerting the powers that be back then of the huge increase in numbers, it's disgraceful that this has been ignored for so long.

I totally get that CAMHS is under resourced and would never blame them or get abusive at them. It absolutely isn't fit for purpose but I don't blame staff and people who work there, it must be immensely challenging.

I've always assumed that if we're bumped down the queue it's for a good reason. I accept a child who is suicidal, self harming needs help urgently at the expense of my ADHD daughter being seen later. Of course I'm not happy it delays her assessment, but I understand.

@LethargeMarg

The mental health teams in schools are for low to moderate mental health illness though. They're definitely a step in the right direction and great for supporting kids and young people at this level and hopefully will ease the pressure in Camhs waiting times and lists all I'm saying is for those with severe mental health issues it should still be referred to Camhs as these other teams are not trained to treat certain mental health illnesses.

The teams in our area are a trial and are not available in every area. So im not sure what you're referring too?

Regardless of what you say I 'should' do, the approach seems to be working well for our patients. So ill carry on doing it. Hopefully because the trial teams get used a lot it'll be made into a permanent thing.

The trial is nationwide but it's a new service. It's definitely a good team to use but there are limits to the support they can provide is the point I'm making. For example a young person with possible bipolar would still need to be referred to Camhs.
The good news with these teams in schools (it's not every school though) is that there is a huge gap between services such as school nurses and Camhs and hopefully these teams can help fill this gap for things like anxiety and low mood. I'm pleased that it's working well in your area but it won't be appropriate for every young person particularly those with severe mental health illness although these teams can refer on to Camhs themselves if they can't meet the needs of patients referred in.

I completely disagree with stellaris22. I don't see it as bullying or harassing. That's insulting and ott. Bullying is serious. You belittle the word.

Anyone has every right to follow up emails asking when they're case will be ..... reviewed, when they'll get an appointment.

To NOT chase is probably .... foolish.

Moving your child up the queue so other children have to wait longer, thats not ok. Every child is important.

I am willing to accept that suicidal, self harming children ARE more urgent cases. But harassing to get your child seen quicker, thats not helping waiting lists. Getting seen because you shout loudest, I am not willing to accept that behaviour is ok.

Of course I want my child to be seen, but if you really care then go private, don't make it so other children never get seen because their parents don't harass already overworked staff.

It depends how the service arrangers themselves.

In ours the wait for a psychiatrist is separate to the general service. The general service will t say you have to exhaust all their provision first - CBT, general counselling, school support etc. But for my son they admitted he wouldn't be able to engage so I did push for the psychiatrist referral and it was the right call. Him taking up a place on the 9 month waiting place for CBT when he wouldn't be able to engage but they would spend 3 months trying really is a waste of resources

Just to reiterate some other points on here, definitely see what else is available. I work in the voluntary sector and we support many people on the CAMHS waiting list and in myriad ways. We have no waiting list and good outcomes.

And kooth, as mentioned by a pp, is a v good online service and accessible immediately.
The school nursing team may also help. Ours can refer to resilience and emotional health practitioners for example, who do direct work with young people.

My daughter got some help for her anxiety. But it wasn’t from CAMHS, it was from the lovely class TA who had a child with anxiety and knew had to work with her. CAHMS reviewed her case a few months later and took notes from the TAs approach…Glad we could help…

OP what help does your child need? There are some useful self help services out there that between us all, we can probably direct you towards.

@Stellaris22 if you meant me I didn't BULLY anyone: we were persistent, got and used support (from school, GP and health visitor) to advocate for us and chase things up; when various deadlines or promised dates arrived with no word we'd be in touch and demand information. We visited GP often, every time DD had a worsening of her problems. They'd chase up the referral.
I've no idea if we shunted anyone else down the queue, but I doubt DD would be alive now had she not received help, and having remained polite and patient while nothing was done for DD would have been less than zero consolation.

We were much cheekier in pressing for school support and special school placement because the education department were inefficient and disorganised and frankly needed s kick up the bum. Those who just waited will have waited a long time.

Thank you for sharing your own experiences. DS has anxiety, OCD-type behaviours and almost certainly needs an ASD assessment. I am worried that if it is a further 12month+ wait before he gets any support (which seems likely), the OCD issues are going to get worse.

My nephew was referred to a CAMHS that had no staff - just a person on the end of the phone telling people there were no staff! About as hopeless as it gets.

@tallywag those are my daughter's problems, too. She is diagnosed with ASD, OCD and has high anxiety and, since age 13, depression. She cant function without medication.

Please go to your GP when your DS is going through more acute phases. Ask for advice, ask them to chase up the referral. I am sorry you're going through this, and hope he gets the help he needs soon

We are in a similar position - just about to refer for ASD/OCD and really need help so this is pretty scary reading. Those who've gone private do you have any advice on how to find some good support?