Safeguarding issues in the Girl Guiding movement

[EishetChayil]

Parents of daughters in the Girl Guides - what do you think about the new lead commissioner for the Southwell division?

"Monica Sulley" also goes by the name of "Monica Tetley", and used this name to sign Aimee Challenor's open letters (a quick Google will shed some light on why this might be a safeguarding issue). This is just the latest in a series of WTF moves from GG.

My DD isn't old enough for Guides yet, but if she was, I would be thinking twice about sending her if this is deemed suitable as leadership. Perhaps this makes me a huge transphobic TERF witch bigot, but there we go.

Not to disrespect posters still here though.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

The contraception issue is one of boundaries. Teachers aren't "qualified" to offer contraception advice to individual children. Outside of teaching pre planned lessons you refer individual children on to health care professionals for personal advice about contraception. Girl guiders should be in the same position - to access a child to HCPs who have the knowledge and skills to advise children about appropriate contraception.

It's evident that the GG's understanding of both boundaries and child safeguarding is woeful.

This ^^

We had a school nurse we could get condoms from, and the health centre near by.

Hcp are qualified and trained to do this.

It is not at all the same as a teacher or football coach or riding teacher or GG leader handing them out. Children should not think it’s normal for all the adults in their life to hand out sex Ed and contraceptives. Hcp have a very select role, a very limited and professional relationship with children accessing them. Not a in loco parentis one (probably spelt wrong). It’s completely different and a massive safeguarding red flag from GG. Not just the leaders following this policy, but the entire organisation as its a policy they have in place.

@RedCarpetRebellion

Not to disrespect posters still here though.

Are you saying I’m not effective?

It's really not required to put your bdsm pics all over social media in order to have a personal sex life. Seriously we need to have some basic standards. This pic really undermines all the social media guidance that the girls should be getting in school.

@WholeClassKeptIn

I don't think they can see the real issue tbh. They think the issue is bad publicity...

I agree, but admitting 'it's not a good look' is a great first step. I mean, why isn't it a good look? Could it be because it's a clear breach of their code of conduct and safeguarding opportunities have been missed?

I don't think it's because the world is full of meany transphobes we have to appease. I mean, I suppose it could look like that if you squint hard enough and wear rose tinted blinkers.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235539/Girlguides-launch-probe-trans-Commissioner-58-saucy-dominatrix-style-picture.html

What WERE they thinking????

If the girl is under 13, the sex she has had should be considered exploitative and therefore the information should be passed on. Ideally, parents or carers should be informed, but only by the girl or with her permission. Try to persuade the girl to inform her parents or carers."

That's just amazingly poor. A school would fail Ofsted for guidance like that. Is it even legal? They are talking about child sex abuse.

@RepentMotherfucker

If the girl is under 13, the sex she has had should be considered exploitative and therefore the information should be passed on. Ideally, parents or carers should be informed, but only by the girl or with her permission. Try to persuade the girl to inform her parents or carers."

That's just amazingly poor. A school would fail Ofsted for guidance like that. Is it even legal? They are talking about child sex abuse.

Especially given that if she were under 13, the abuse has likely come from within the home / family network.

Oh, just go home and tell your folks, pet.

That's interesting depressing re the underage sex thing. Is it now inherently bad to believe that, as a general rule of thumb, under-16s having full sex is just never going to be a great idea, particularly for the female partner? Yes I know that life is messy and I don't have any magical solutions to the messy realities of the 21st century, but I don't think some "wait till you're older & readier for this emotionally" messaging around sex is such a terrible thing.

Whilst it's great the daily mail covered it, was there any need for the descriptions of this male's "ample bosom".

I'm taking my DD out of guides. Absolutely no way will I support this misogyny. Rotten to the core.

Running for the better interests and enjoyment of females for over a century.

Killed by a certain political, male led, male serving agenda in what... five years?

In response to a pp question, scouting is much better on safeguarding. I think because our organisation has had serious issues in the past that we are hot on it. Plus we're used to separating the sexes for camps etc.

No way would we allow sexual activity to take place between scouts - even if the same age and consensual.

Interestingly a former Guide leader locally has tried to set up a new girls group and has been prevented from hiring the local hall.

The council have been asked to clarify their reasons as there are two boys only groups held there yet the suggestion is they won’t let to her because she’s planning girls only and only female leaders (the Guide group folded as all of the leaders left).

Surely if a 13 year old on camp asks for Condoms you redouble your watch to keep sees separate not condone underage sex?

JustLyra I hope she pursues it.

@JustLyra

Interestingly a former Guide leader locally has tried to set up a new girls group and has been prevented from hiring the local hall.

The council have been asked to clarify their reasons as there are two boys only groups held there yet the suggestion is they won’t let to her because she’s planning girls only and only female leaders (the Guide group folded as all of the leaders left).

These people should be reminded that local halls are for all locals, not just penis people.

Does my fucking head in. Who the fuck do these people think they are?

@AnneElliott

In response to a pp question, scouting is much better on safeguarding. I think because our organisation has had serious issues in the past that we are hot on it. Plus we're used to separating the sexes for camps etc.

No way would we allow sexual activity to take place between scouts - even if the same age and consensual.

This. Back in the day I was professionally involved in several awful investigations with cubs and scout masters and I know how hard the scouts have worked to rid themselves of adults involved for the wrong reasons and to implement rigorous safeguarding procedures. It defies belief that the guides - knowing what happened in the scouts - have repeatedly loosened safeguarding rules, going so far as to encourage untrained adults to have repeated discussions with girls about sex and sexuality.

@JustLyra

Interestingly a former Guide leader locally has tried to set up a new girls group and has been prevented from hiring the local hall.

The council have been asked to clarify their reasons as there are two boys only groups held there yet the suggestion is they won’t let to her because she’s planning girls only and only female leaders (the Guide group folded as all of the leaders left).

This needs to be repeatedly put to Liz Truss in evidence. The exceptions do not work, and they are being used to harass and subordinate females. Largely by male people who will tell you that they don't believe biological sex is a thing. But who act entirely on sex based thinking and male supremacism.

@Lovelyricepudding

Surely if a 13 year old on camp asks for Condoms you redouble your watch to keep sees separate not condone underage sex?

If a thirteen year old asks you for condoms you CALL. THE. POLICE.

@Lovelyricepudding

JustLyra I hope she pursues it.

She is doing. She won’t let it go.

@Shedmistress exactly that. It’s interesting they’ve got involved to this level. Normally they check you’re registered with someone and/or have done their child protection training course and are registered with their local protection officer and that’s it.

The only debate is over what rate you pay.

Someone has massively over stepped with this one. And luckily with the wrong person because she’s on a determined mission!

That's great @JustLyra. I have this week decided I am going to fight my LA on something that will make a difference. If we all picked one thing...

@MrsOvertonsWindow - and (as if it needs pointing out), the reason that this hasn't been an issue in Guides before now is because the Guides used to be a single sex organisation for women and girls and the vast majority of sex offenders are men.

Now they've become effectively mixed sex, they're going to run into exactly the same issues that Scouts did.

It beggars belief no one thought of this except if people think men who transition immediately become as low risk as women. But all the evidence demonstrates that isn't the case.

That's right Clymene. I've been involved in safeguarding since the days where there were few guidelines and even if children told (as in the case of one little boy repeatedly abused by his cub leader) he told his teacher but wasn't believed.
As I watch institutions like the guides prioritise the demands of adult activists involved in sexual politics, I despair (and rage). We know what happens when groups are deemed untouchable. That child's teacher just assumed that the cub master wouldn't do anything like that so didn't share the information. She lost her job for that decision but a very little boy experienced repeated abuse because of her lack of action.

Organisations that prioritise sexual politics over child safeguarding have no business working with children.