Aphantasia - I have it and have questions for people who don’t!

[Aphantasia]

For anyone who doesn’t know what aphantasia is, it’s not being able to mentally visualise imagery. I only recently found out that 99% of people can actually see things in their minds eye, I can’t, at all! I always thought it was just a figure of speech when people said things like ‘picture this’ or that when people meditated they could actually close their eyes and see beaches and sunsets or whatever. I have never been able to see anything when I close my eyes, just blackness, can’t see my loved ones faces or relive any memories visually. I imagine in concepts and can feel the shape of things and remember details that I can describe in words but not see.

But… here’s my question. I’m an artist, and I can sit down and draw from my imagination pretty much anything I want but why, if you can see things in your minds eye, can’t the 99% of the population that can visualise not sit down and draw things perfectly accurately from memory? My husband is crap at drawing, like if I said, draw a giraffe, he’d draw some god awful looking creature that looks like it should be put out of its misery!

When you imagine imagery in your minds eye, is it complete? Can you see every detail or are there blurry bits to fill in for the details you never quite noticed before?

@EBearhug

I am hyperphantasic. I have mad, vivid dreams, glorious technicolor, cast of thousands, bloody exhausting sometimes. My memories are very visual, too.

The way I think, it's sort of like I have a whole load of different bands running concurrently, and different ones are at the top concurrently. A lot of it's visual, but there's usually some music running, and I think in words too. It depends what I'm thinking about. Mathsy stuff can be quite visual rather than words.

I can imagine an bluebell clearly, and could draw it, though it probably wouldn't come out perfect - I don't have the drawing/painting skills to be a hyper-realistic artist, though I could probably do it well enough that it would be recognisably a bluebell.

8 haven't done any drawing or painting for years.

You are so, so lucky! It sounds amazing to be like that.

@Marimaur yes I dream but I’m not conscious of visualising when I’m dreaming and don’t remember if I visualise

I am the same op, everything is just black although sometimes i get very quick flashes, but only memories of things i have seen, like photos, not images i have created iykwim, but if i try to focus on them they are gone! Weirdly though, i have very vivid dreams, i can definitely see things in my dreams which i don't really understand. The other night i was looking down at my arm in a dream and i could see the sleeve of a yellow dress, (not something i have in real life) but awake me can't see it.

I have struggled so much to see things in my mind, but alas, nothing. I can rarely get a fleeting fuzzy type of flash that might or might be what I was desperately trying to see. I have tried so hard. With my eyes closed, nothing but black.

Counting sheep. I have been able to count sheep but I 'see' them by using words in my mind, ie I kind of talk them over the style, but don't see them. I think about what they look like from memory - no picture, but a description comes.

Is that what happens when you 'see in your mind''s eye?

I'd never heard of this! Do you think other parts of your memory bank/imagination etc are stronger because you lack this?

I can't visualise things either, just blackness when I try but I am shit at drawing! I am amazing at remembering peoples faces though.

@Iamanicepersonreally

I can’t visualise anything. I’m not sure that I’d want to either. Don’t you sometimes get unpleasant images of bad experiences that you can’t control?

Not at all. I fully control what I see in the images. It's not like dreams at night where you usually have no control.

@Iamanicepersonreally

I’m the same. I only realised recently that other people can actually visualise things and it still baffles me. If your eyes are closed, how can you “see” anything. I honestly don’t understand it

I can "see" things in my mind's eye with my eyes open! So I can see what I'm actually looking at and imagine an image of something completely different.

@whatwasIgoingtosay

If I asked you, what colour is your front door? Would you be able to answer? That's a standard question for initial assessment of the 'mind's eye', as most of us can access a mental image of our door. And, as another PP asked, what about dreams? Do you have images in your dreams? I'm having a hard time imagining how you can be an artist without mental visual imagery.

This is really interesting. I can't do this very well. I once was on the phone to a delivery driver who asked what colour our door was to a block of flats and I had to go and check! I just reflected our current door is brown before remembering DH painted it 2 years ago! With work I can picture it.

I do see things in my mind's eye but in an impressionist painting style! It's more about a feeling for me. I can daydream but it is about how I feel in relation to events e.g. imagining the sun warming my skin rather than visualising the beach. I also have quite poor facial recognition, which I suspect is linked.

This is doing my head in I'm told I have a photographic memory. I don't believe i di to he totally honest. Something that happened to me when I was a child feels as recent as yesterday. My memory timeline is not lineal. I look at say a picture in a book and il remember it and can visualize it forever. I'm autistic so this probably explains this. Its actually a curse sometimes becauseI can visualize painfulmemoriesat the drop of a hat and watch it play out and it feels like its just happene . Its helpful in some ways for example, recently I was in a play and the director passed me the script to learn and I came back the next day with it learnt because I'd looked at it written down then made a picture of it in my mind. The director was laughing about how quickly I learnt it. He couldn't quite believe it.
I can't draw at all though. My drawings are like a 2 year olds.
I can't picture what you are all saying. How can you draw if you have no visual memories or can't imagine things? Its mind boggling.

@Chakraleaf

I can't see images either. I only realised recently that people are generally able too and that's why some things are so hard for me. (I have asd)

I also have ASD but I see things vividly and also have extremely vivid dreams that I can sometimes control, depending on what stage of sleep I'm in. Fascinating.

@RomComPhooey I love that you and your dh have decided I see in broad strokes, nope, I can assure you I see nothing. I watched an interview recently from another artist who is aphantasic who decribed her mind like a computer, all the files are there and the hard drive is working etc, except her monitor screen is turned off, that what it feels like to me, I ‘know’ what things look like, but there’s no screen in my mind to see them on, I can however output them onto paper if that makes sense?

Wow. Can you hold colour in your mind? For example, when I'm shopping I can pick something up knowing it will match something I already have at home.

What about spelling? I always picture the written word as I spell. I was chatting to a dyslexic colleague last week and he said there is no way he can do that, things have to be learned by rote.

I have a very rich internal world. It's very distracting sometimes.

I can see in my minds eye memories clearly.

If you said to me "imagine this in your head" I could do it. From all angles. Lighten it, darken it, remove things, add things etc."

So if someone said will I suit blonde hair etc I can picture what they would look like with blonde hair versus what they have now.

When you dream do you dream like a film? I do. Dream in colour etc, can control what I dream about usually except for nightmares. Can wake up and go back to a dream etc.

The mind is just so fascinating.

I also have an internal commentary all day. It's my voice just talking to myself.

Just wondering op if you have the same problem as me with mentally mapping out a journey, even a very short, familiar one. I can't visualise where one road is in relation to another, i often get lost or take a wrong turn, it makes driving quite stressful.

I only recently realised I'm unable to visualise too. My son was explaining some technical mechanism & I asked him "can you actually see this in your head"? He said yes he could - and can apparently visualise it moving and from different angles. It was a revelation! I'm totally unable to see things.
I can however dream in full 3D colour. I can also hear music note for note. We have artists in the family but I have no artistic ability.

[quote Aphantasia]@whatwasIgoingtosay it’s grey, mid tone with a slight mauve tinge… but I can’t ‘see’ it I can only tell you that from looking at it and remembering my observations at the times I’ve looked at it if that makes sense?[/quote]
I think what you’re calling “remembering my observations of my front door” is the same as other people saying they can “see” or “imagine” their front door.

I read that question about the front door and - with my eyes open and still reading the thread - my mind immediately went “yep, white, PVC, letterbox there, handle there” and that created enough of a mental picture that I “can see” my front door when asked that question.

I’m not seeing a photo flash up of my front door, though.

Same for your giraffe. I can “see” a giraffe i.e. I can imagine from memory what a giraffe looks like - my mind goes “neck like that, body like that, that colour, patterns like this, tongue and hooves and weird sticky up horn bits” and that creates a “picture” of a giraffe. But I’m not right there next to an actual giraffe in my head.

I wouldn’t describe myself as having no mind’s eye.

I find it fascinating that you can imagine things (create a mental image of them) without having a mind's eye. How can you imagine? How do you visualise / conceptualise your imagining?

When you imagine imagery in your minds eye, is it complete? Can you see every detail or are there blurry bits to fill in for the details you never quite noticed before?

For me it's razor sharp in fact sometimes after looking at something and closing my eyes I can see it so clearly that I think my eyes are still open. If I need to remember something I've seen then I'll often close my eyes to recall the image

It's a skill that you can improve tremendously with practice and basic visualisation exercises.

Weirdly with words I have a photographic memory
I'm not aware I'm doing it but I read everything, so on a drive you could say "oh what was that sign?" And I can read the whole sign back to you

[quote Aphantasia]@RomComPhooey I love that you and your dh have decided I see in broad strokes, nope, I can assure you I see nothing. I watched an interview recently from another artist who is aphantasic who decribed her mind like a computer, all the files are there and the hard drive is working etc, except her monitor screen is turned off, that what it feels like to me, I ‘know’ what things look like, but there’s no screen in my mind to see them on, I can however output them onto paper if that makes sense?[/quote]
I didn’t mean YOU. We meant you (vague handwave), ie US but not well expressed. I would never assume what anyone else sees after the whole fiasco of DH’s hideous trouser/shirt combo (red green colourblind).

When I close my eyes I see black. But if I think about a place or a person I can bring an image to mind.
I can picture a place inside my head and "see" it but not using my eyes, and it doesn't matter if my eyes are opened or closed.

Today I had to go to the dental hygienist (which I hate) and now that I think about it, I can picture the surgery, the chair, the window, and yet my eyes are open typing this at the same time.

But I can't draw for toffee. I cannot make my hand draw what I can see, either in real life or my head. I can't draw simple things either, I just can't draw at all 😄

Wow, this is quite fascinating - I want aware of this until your thread!

So say for example, if I said picture Micky Mouse, or Homer Simpson, can you bring their faces to mind? Or is it just an abstract idea/feeling about them?

I can bring both of their images to mind, even with my eyes open, as well as playing sound (their voices etc). Fascinated that other people’s brains are so different!

@Anythingbutsnow

I don't understand how someone came up with this. No one knows what actually happens in another person's mind. So what I describe as seeing something in my mind, may not be what you assume it would be. Infact, when I think about seeing something I'm not sure I actually do see it in the way you describe. So maybe I have what you have, but wouldn't have ever thought of it like that. Or, maybe everyone has it but we think everyone else see things differently??

^this!

When I close my eyes, it's just black. If I imagine my child. I know what he looks like but I don't see a photo of him in my "mind's eye". In fact it's not very clear at all, it's just me imagining him. I don't actually physically "see" anything.

So do i have it or not? I don't "see" anything, but I can't sort of imagine what thinks like like. But not in any great detail including my child. And if I drew from memory, I don't think it would be realistic as I don't actually "see" anything.

People might find this aphantasia test interesting! I'm not sure how scientifically acurare it is but it gives you an idea of where your "minds eye" fits on the scale :

aphantasia.com/vviq/