Look at this poor man's council flat 😢

[charabanctrip]

And he lives here with his elderly carer (? mum) and a cat.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59302526

So much victim blaming here.

This isn’t some hoarder refusing repairmen entry. This is someone who has repeatedly called for help.

The mould etc isn’t caused by him not cleaning up after himself. The house is flooded. Why would you “wipe down” the kitchen surfaces etc when there is 3 inches of water on the floor and everything is completely rotten or rusted?

And what planet are people on that they think he can afford to hire his own plumber? He’s in a flat, the water is coming from the ceiling which means the leak is more than likely coming from a neighbouring flat. It’s unlikely it’s something he’d even be able to fix without the other flats cooperation even if he had the funds which he obviously doesn’t given he doesn’t work.

@charabanctrip

Councils can go to court in order to force people to vacate their property if it's at risk of serious damage. A hoarder in the next town to me is currently trying to remain in his council house which the council are forcing him out of. Local people in the community are helping him clear his house and garden to enable him to remain.

I used to work in homeless prevention, and we would often have clients referred to us because their tenancies were at risk because of hoarding etc. It was very common for people who were hoarders or couldn't get to grips with maintaining their home not to let contractors in to do repairs and safety checks.

Sadly, because of a decade's worth of austerity, many councils can no longer afford to buy in such services or provide them themselves. We will see more and more cases like this imo.

@Meruem
I'm a homeowner and have been trying for a year to find someone to fix a hole in my roof. It's a very old house and difficult to get to and I just can't find anyone to do it. Lack of tradesperson is a real problem.

Also, I think there must be serious mental health problems (for both of them) going on here. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they refused to let anyone in.

No one, aside from me and let’s face it you don’t get more worthless than me, gave a shit

You are not worthless x

Seeing the images and reading about this dreadful and unacceptable situation is shocking. I hope that heads will roll in the council and housing association, and that the man, his carer and cat get the immediate and ongoing help and compassion they need and deserve.

Reading the man's own words is heart breaking. They offer us all insight and food for thought about being a vulnerable person, from the inside.

This is Britain - well, England, anyway - in 2021.

Councils can go to court in order to force people to vacate their property if it's at risk of serious damage

And they can do this even if they house is owned.
I knew a brother and sister, both with serious mental health problems, who lived in their mothers old house that they'd inherited. They lived in seriously unsafe conditions, no heating or power. They used to build fires in the middle of the livingroom to keep warm, this burnt holes in the ceilings and through the floor of the room above (terrace house). They had years of intervention eventually the council compulsory purchased the house. The brother, sister wouldn't accept a penny of the money (held in an account for them) or council or supported accommodation and ended up living on the streets, just sain enough not to be sectioned.

That video is shocking. I actually lived on the same estate (but different block) where the man lives, and I've found the TMO (same TMO as the man has) are very good and efficient with repairs. Repairs are outsourced to a company and yes, occasionally you have to chase things up or have to stay in all day to get things sorted, but overall they've been very good. I've also had new double glazed windows, new bathroom and kitchen, boiler and radiators replaced, and full electrical rewire during the 17 years I've lived there. Gas checks every year (they are very strict about that, they keep making appointments if you fail to let them in and eventually threaten to break your door down to gain access) and electrical checks every few years. Estate caretaker cleans the communal areas daily, we have landscaped communal gardens, and the lift is always functioning (or is fixed within a couple of days). It really isn't a neglectful council/TMO ime. I've been happy enough in my flat that I've bought it under RTB and can see myself continuing to live here for a good few more years.

I expect there are multiple issues going on which have prevented that happening here. I wonder what the process was where he was complaining for two years, whether he maybe went through the wrong channels (e.g. you need to call the TMO to deal with the repairs, not the actual council). I've had MH issues in the past which have meant I've not reported problems as quickly as I should have. The council don't inspect properties and generally leave you to it (except the annual gas check), so if nothing is reported then things can get worse without intervention. Lockdown etc probably made that worse.

It shouldn't be like that, but equally a bit of care and cleaning would make a difference. Surely tenants are expected to at least attempt to keep some standard of interior care. Our previous rented flat suffered a leak through the ceiling and we didn't just leave it to go stagnant and filthy. Granted, we had good landlords who actually dealt with it in reasonable time, but you can't just leave it to go manky.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

What has the carer been doing? It’s their job to care for this man

The carer is probably his elderly parent. Parents are usually the carers of their vulnerable adult children.

@SweetPetrichor

It shouldn't be like that, but equally a bit of care and cleaning would make a difference. Surely tenants are expected to at least attempt to keep some standard of interior care. Our previous rented flat suffered a leak through the ceiling and we didn't just leave it to go stagnant and filthy. Granted, we had good landlords who actually dealt with it in reasonable time, but you can't just leave it to go manky.

Did you miss the part where it said the tenant is severely vulnerable with MH problems? Christ some posters on here have no understanding of how difficult life can be for someone with the same issues in decent accommodation, let alone when they are left to rot by inadequate housing association and under funded services.

Looking at the newspaper article, it says that home visits/inspections were suspended because of covid. I wonder if a lot of public bodies will face scrutiny about their duty of care provision during covid.

Sorry but the “vulnerable with MH conditions” applies to myself and my DH and we manage to not let things get to such a state. So I don’t think the 55yo man is “a victim” of the entire situation. A victim of a leak not being repaired in a timely fashion, victim of water damage, but the level of filth and rubbish in the videos goes far beyond water damage.

The only real victim is the poor cat having to live with them. RSPCA should be called to rehome the cat.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Sorry but the “vulnerable with MH conditions” applies to myself and my DH and we manage to not let things get to such a state. So I don’t think the 55yo man is “a victim” of the entire situation. A victim of a leak not being repaired in a timely fashion, victim of water damage, but the level of filth and rubbish in the videos goes far beyond water damage.

The only real victim is the poor cat having to live with them. RSPCA should be called to rehome the cat.

There are lots of different types and degrees of MH conditions. Just because you and your DH manage doesn’t mean someone more impaired or alone will.

@Coronawireless
Agree. But the article has no detail on whether he and his carer could not or did not clean his home. But you are right in that we can’t assume either way.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they refused to let anyone in.

Nobody had ever visited the flat despite numerous requests for help. It wasn't a case of refusing access.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Coronawireless
Agree. But the article has no detail on whether he and his carer could not or did not clean his home. But you are right in that we can’t assume either way.[/quote]
Sorry if I sounded bossy!
Your nice reply has taken the wind out if my sails

@Coronawireless
You didn’t sound bossy! It was important point you made that I had neglected. And you also seem to care about the poor cat that has been living there.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Sorry but the “vulnerable with MH conditions” applies to myself and my DH and we manage to not let things get to such a state. So I don’t think the 55yo man is “a victim” of the entire situation. A victim of a leak not being repaired in a timely fashion, victim of water damage, but the level of filth and rubbish in the videos goes far beyond water damage.

The only real victim is the poor cat having to live with them. RSPCA should be called to rehome the cat.

There are varying states of MH and vulnerability, fantastic that you and your DH are able to manage. Many, many can’t. Like my DF who had Huntington’s disease, hoarding, OCD and who would only let me in to do emergency declutter and deep cleans when things got too bad despite it really being an environmental hazard. It took years and lots of hassle to get him into safe clean accommodation and then appropriate care. Looks like this man and his carer had no one in their court.

@Pennguin

It's horrendous but I suspect there is other stuff going on here as well. Looks like he's a hoarder and there are general hygiene issues. And as soon as the council found out what was going on and the state of disrepair he was moved. I've seen elderly people live like this in their own houses for various reasons so it's not necessarily the council's fault. Just very sad that they lived like this at all.

It wasn't "as soon as the council found out" though. The article says the council was contacted "over and over". It sounds more like the tenant has been moved because the BBC got involved and it was going to be in the press.

And tbh it doesn't matter why the property is like this - whether its due to a leaking pipe and poor maintenance by the council, or whether it's a vulnerable person who can't look after themselves and isn't been given the appropriate help, this shouldn't happen.

@charabanctrip

The landlord has a lot to answer for, of course, but it begs the question why, in two years, would you not pay for a plumber to come and sort it out before it got to that state? I know you shouldn't have to, but dear God, take some responsibility for yourself instead of expecting others to do it for you.

It's a council flat and the council are responsible for the repairs.

Plumbers cost money, sometimes a lot of money. The tenants are vulnerable and obviously on benefits.

How callous do you have to be to make such a remark?

It's not a callous remark. There's two people living there, therefore two incomes. Benefits or not, for the sake of a habitable house, you'd pay a few quid for a plumber, surely, then try and recoup the cost from the landlord. There's absolutely no reason to let it get in that state.

You can’t just sort yourself. I spent 12 hours water pouring through my toilet sewage back flow and after many phone calls I offered sort emergency plumber myself but then I’d be reasonable for any further damage and counter claims for who’s faults X was in the first place. Plus like me
He lives in a flat makes things 100 times more complicated as rely on neighbours allowing access. I’ve had water pour through my ceiling and upstairs refused check and say their flat is fine. Apparently can’t make them do anything.

[quote Kendodd]**@Meruem
I'm a homeowner and have been trying for a year to find someone to fix a hole in my roof. It's a very old house and difficult to get to and I just can't find anyone to do it. Lack of tradesperson is a real problem.

Also, I think there must be serious mental health problems (for both of them) going on here. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they refused to let anyone in.[/quote]
I also thought this too.

I wonder perhaps has shame gotten in the way until the problem has severely escalated.

Has he reached out when the problem is too excessive and the council haven't quite realised just how BAD it is/there are protocols and assessments that need to be followed and unfortunately exceptions cannot be made.

The article states he has been complaining for two years but what did that entail? A single complaint at the start then 30 in the last week? There's no way of knowing and we have only been given a snapshot of the story.

Regardless, this just highlights how there needs to be more intervention of known vulnerable adults. Social services should pay regular mandatory visits and assess the welfare of the individual and the environment they are living in and the health of those caring for them.

Absolutely no excuse for the state this poor family is in.

It is possible that it's unsafe for contractors to go in for repairs and has been before it got anywhere near that flooded and rotten? I wonder what the timeline is between the disrepair and mould and the place being uninhabitable through tenant hoarding rubbish etc? Perhaps the repair jobs haven't been able to be done due to the conditions caused by the tenant initially? I dunno. It just feels like it's absolutely crazy that any housing officer involved would allow it to get to that stage.

To me, it seems like a number of different organisations are at fault. The council for not taking action (which at this stage would be rehousing or at the very least, a messy eviction of a vulnerable person so they can tear into that house and re-do everything) and social services. A vulnerable person with physical and mental health issues, living with an elderly parent should have been taken out of that situation long ago.

The landlord has a lot to answer for, of course, but it begs the question why, in two years, would you not pay for a plumber to come and sort it out before it got to that state? I know you shouldn't have to, but dear God, take some responsibility for yourself instead of expecting others to do it for you

Jesus fucking Christ alive 😡. Did someone just think this, let alone type it out?

While I agree the housing crisis is, a crisis, I would also say these situations are v complicated.

DB is friends with someone with severe schizophrenia. They inherited a house when their mum died from alcoholism and its fallen into disprepair from neglect. There are shopping trolleys in the bath, the toilet is blocked. He was going to the toilet in the garden for months. Its full of stuff from hoarding.

Yet he refuses help, it's very much 'I'm sorting it out' and nothing gets done. It's very much a pride thing, fear of criticism and fear of being controlled.

Recently he received a large benefits rebate - enough to do up parts of it - its just been frittered on alcohol. I don't blame him, I just think it's indicative of his low functioning.

The council, under insistence from his dad, came round to do an assessment and he has accepted help from a volunteer group to sort the garden out at least.

From what I understand hoarding and accompanying issues are notoriously difficult for social services to make headway on.

In the bigger picture though this what years of underfunding mental health support in the community looks like.