Help me understand secondary school admissions

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

I think I'm beginning to understand how it works (in Englad or just my Local authority I dont know):
Put 3 schools (or 5 depending on area) down that you want and generally meet the criteria to be selected.
Make sure they are in genuine preference order
Looked after children are pretty much awarded the No1 school they choose (totally on board with that)
Then the school uses their criteria on siblings/distance etc
The LA then gives you the name of the school your dc is getting based on getting a place and in order of preference.

So I apply for school A B then C in that order, B and C give me places but the LA assigns me B as it's my preferred choice.

however

What then happens with the place I got at C?

Does the LA go back to school C and say "declined" ..... then does someone else who has been awarded a different school get told "C now has a place"?

If there are 100 places and you end up at place 101 in the list then you havent met criteria - they are often based on distance so people mistakenly think there is a "catchment area" when the reality is for over-subscribed schools, the size of the area or the distance of the last place offered can vary every year.

It's done based on the schools criteria though so if they got to the category that was nearest to school to would be 130 places to those nearest, oh 59 of them have a place on higher preference so the next 59 nearest get a place.

It's very mind blowing what it does that makes it work.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Just because you happen to be last on the list of all y6 students in the LA for nothing other than coincidence?

What if School C was next door to your house but by the time the computer got down to your name, school c was full, with the last spot going to the kid at 2999 on the list, even though they live 3 miles away?

No! The computer doesn't work down a list of all year 6 kids in random order. It looks at EVERY application at the same time and you are ranked according to how closely you meet your choices criteria.

@titchy

Oh you mean if you're not ranked at any of your choices? You remain on the waiting list for those choices, but in the meantime you'd be allocated a place at a school that still had vacancies after the process of allocating had happened.

No, I mean, you get ranked at two of your choices. Then you get assigned the higher slot (obviously), so what happens to the place at the other school (that you never know about of course), I'm guessing as its computer based, the computer just opens that space up again?

In that case, you'd be near the top of the criteria for school C and would stand a fair chance of being allocated a place.

I don't think it works as one list, it's a complicated algorithm that looks at multiple criteria for multiple schools at the same time.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

So theres a list of each school on the computer programme? And your name is on each list of the schools you chose? And how far up that list depends on how closely you meet the criteria?

Yes!

I'm guessing as its computer based, the computer just opens that space up again?

Yes that's how a person would do it, but the computer software wouldn't really ever have allocated a kid to two schools, it would rank at the highest choice, and if within the top 210 or whatever there would be no further ranking of that child at their lower choices.

That would have happened almost instanteously. I think you need to start thinking like a computer and less like a person doing one task at a time

This is so complicated.

Ok

So what happens then if the computer assigns Jenny down the street (eg) school a, then also assigns her school b.

In the meantime, I dont get a, but I get b. However, Jenny's preference is b then a. So she no longer gets a.

Do they rerun to see if anyone can be bumped up?

@FabricedeSauveterre

That would have happened almost instanteously. I think you need to start thinking like a computer and less like a person doing one task at a time

This is probably true.

Say there are 1000 applicants who put down school a as 1st choice. Looked after and statemented ETC dc get first dibs. Then siblings, then feeder schools, distance then whatever criteria. If there are still insufficient places then they look at 2nd choice (using the same criteria), then 3rd choice etc. If you only enter A and don't get in, then you get what's left, school Z.

If you get school B you can go on the waiting list for A, places come up if parents have a change of heart, or move or whatever.

I've worked in some hugely over-subscribed schools where kids from well outside catchment have a place due to siblings, or been driven 30 miles a day to feeder primaries but Johnny who lives 300m away can't get in because he went to a non-feeder school in the same side of town that was easier for parents to drop off at.

The algorithm works its way down the schools’ published admission criteria; so it works out whether you’d get in under you’ll get in under Rule 1 (LAC) or 4 (sibling) or whatever it happens to be at that school. It knows how many spaces are available and allocates that many and no more.

If you are successful in that process for both A and B; it “locks in” the place at A and the place at B is released back out for allocation.

It’s run over and over again until either all children or all places have been allocated throughout the authority, and first offers are made.

After that people accept, decline, go private, go on waiting lists etc. Some of that frees up places; and so then there’s a second (third! fourth! Seventy ninth!) run of allocations at later stages to mop up those changes and see if anyone gets the waiting list spots. This is also when late applications, movers in etc and allocated if they missed the first round.

It’s honestly fucking MAGIC. It blows my mind 😁

The ranking list is calculated for everyone who applies to a school. The order is strictly according to the admission criteria. No one is offered a place until the full ranked list is produced.
Then the computer crosses off the names of anyone who also qualified for a different school which they had listed as a higher priority. Everyone below them moves up one place. This repeats until there are no more people qualifying for more than one school. If the school has 200 places and you are ranked within the top 200 at this point, you get offered a place.

It’s run over and over again until either all children or all places have been allocated throughout the authority, and first offers are made

Ok this is good to know. And I agree it does sound like magic.

How long does the process take? We submit applications in October and hear back April I think....how much of that time is spent on it?

If I get B, then after first offers are made, a place opens up at A, do they consider those who didnt get A first?

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

This is so complicated.

Ok

So what happens then if the computer assigns Jenny down the street (eg) school a, then also assigns her school b.

In the meantime, I dont get a, but I get b. However, Jenny's preference is b then a. So she no longer gets a.

Do they rerun to see if anyone can be bumped up?

It's not complicated - you're just thinking like a person. A computer can do millions of simultaneous calculations and will do, so Jenny will never have been on schools a's list because the programme would have allocated her school b as she both qualified for it and it was her highest ranked.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

It’s run over and over again until either all children or all places have been allocated throughout the authority, and first offers are made

Ok this is good to know. And I agree it does sound like magic.

How long does the process take? We submit applications in October and hear back April I think....how much of that time is spent on it?

The software does it in less than a second!!!!!!

All day, every day.
Checking addresses, verifying siblings, checking with eg church schools that they’ve got their additional evidence. Checking the kids with EHCPs or Looked After Children have been flagged correctly. Reading through the additional information fields on medical reasons etc. Some of that sort of thing might need to go to panel to be decided as to whether its a genuine additional need for that school.
Thousands and thousands of families. Its a full time job for many people in each authority.

After offers day then you usually have to confirm that you wish to stay on waiting lists of schools and at which point they are usually handled by the school as the LEA has discharged their duty and offered a place.

Once you’re pretty sure your data is as clean as its going to be; it is a pretty quick process for the software. It isn’t seconds though, not that first time. It takes a few hours to run in a big county for example.

@Somebodylikeyew

All day, every day. Checking addresses, verifying siblings, checking with eg church schools that they’ve got their additional evidence. Checking the kids with EHCPs or Looked After Children have been flagged correctly. Reading through the additional information fields on medical reasons etc. Some of that sort of thing might need to go to panel to be decided as to whether its a genuine additional need for that school. Thousands and thousands of families. Its a full time job for many people in each authority.

So the time taken is preparing the info for the computer - so it's only fed in for allocations once its verified as correct?

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

If I get B, then after first offers are made, a place opens up at A, do they consider those who didnt get A first?

Depends on your authority. In the ones i know about; when you get your first offer, you can (and should!) accept it, and THEM you can go on waiting lists. Then when the second allocation run happens, everyone now on that waiting list gets considered afresh- again against the published admission rules and obviously only for however many spaces have come available.

The apparent six month delay is because most LAs have a grace period for those moving house, they need to collect evidence for a lot of applicants (eg those applying under 'special criteria'), some schools have entrance exams and the data on results needs to be fed in, some schools have a religious requirement - again the church evidence of worship needs to be added. And some applications will need to be passed to neighbouring authorities.

Thank you for all helping- I do really appreciate it.

I've no concerns when the time comes, as such, just genuinely interested in the process.

How do things like addressed get verified? Do you use census / council tax data?

@Somebodylikeyew

Once you’re pretty sure your data is as clean as its going to be; it is a pretty quick process for the software. It isn’t seconds though, not that first time. It takes a few hours to run in a big county for example.

Ok maybe not seconds then!!!!