School refusing

[Jourdain11]

Hello,

I'm at the end of my endurance with this! It has been an issue for a while, but things seem to have got worse after half term. Monday got off to a terrible start because my 9 year old DD1 would not go to school. By 8am we'd had screaming, tears, trying to hit her head against the walls, and younger two DC agitating because they were missing breakfast club. Managed to get them there in time for school (DH took them on his way to his school for one of his many extra MAT insets) but it took another hour and a half to persuade DD1 into leaving the house. She was totally traumatised and I felt like the most evil mother of all time making her go there. And I was an hour and a half late for work, which did not go down well.

I don't think we can continue like this. It can't be kind or healthy. But I can't just take her out of school - both of us work and we can't afford not to

Please have a read of the website 'not fine in school'.

Has your daughter got any underlying special needs? Diagnosis of Autism or ADHD ?

There are many reasons why this happens and it's very common. Some children just cannot cope with the school setting , it may be the impact of sensory overload (noise, light) or anxiety for example. It may also be something like friendship issues, bit it seems an extreme reaction.

You may want to consider a visit to your GP to get a referral to CAMHs.

The school should be helping.

I was thinking the same as @BurnedToast

It might be overwhelming for her.

You need to understand why this happening. School should be helping - ask for an urgent meeting.

Has your DD explained what it is?

Also have a read of thiswww.ipsea.org.uk/pages/category/children-out-of-school

as it guides you on how to get alternatives to school set up. Or, tutoring or a place in the alternative provision.

PM me if you like.

Do there seem to be any issues at school or is it the transition of leaving home for school which triggers it? Of course it can be both as well which is particularly difficult. Can you discuss with her when she is calm say today, why she thinks that she does this? Could there be some SEN, ASD is often masked in girls for example.

Ds finds it really hard if he gets up in a hurry for example and if there is stress in the morning so we are working on waking him earlier so he can stay in bed for 10 min before he has to get up.

He though is absolutely fine at (new) school and loves it, has friends, doing well etc. For him it is all about the transition and the memories of his last school.

There are of course some children who just don't want to go to school. But many of these children who 'refuse' to go to school have special educational needs and /or underlying conditions such as Autism , learning difficutlties of some sort or sensory issues.

If she doesn't have a diagnosis then I suggest you have a read about ADHD and Autism to see if any of it rings a bell and is worth getting a referall to look into further.

I suggest you also ask for a meeting with the SENCO as there is lots that can be put in place to help; time out of class when overwhelmed, staggered start and finish times to avoid the busy playground, time with a member of staff who specialises in emotional regulation, refer to educational psychologist.

The school will have a SEND Information report on their website which will detail what they can offer.

She has been diagnosed with OCD and anxiety and has a lot of trouble with intrusive thoughts and compulsions. She also suffers with intestinal dysmotility (basically, her gut doesn't process food like it should because her nerves aren't getting the right signals from the brain), so she does often get poorly and has had quite a bit of time off for hospital. She has a lot of anxiety around toileting and worries that the other kids think she's weird

She has always been a quieter girl (unlike her sister ) but had good friends and liked school. Now she seems really cut off from people: lacking confidence to reach out, and I think her time off school has impacted this (which is actually another reason I'm against taking her out long-term).

The school are, well, nice enough but haven't really done loads. Her class teacher is (and I don't want to be mean but...) a bit inexperienced and inflexible, "she has to do what the other children have to do" etc. I do get that, but if she gets compulsions or tics or "needs" to go to the toilet 17 times during the morning, it's not because she's trying to be difficult.

I have actually talked about it with her when she's in a good place, and she says she likes school and she likes learning and "when I can do it I get a good feeling". But every day, going there feels "scary in her head" and sometimes the feeling stays all day.

@BurnedToast

Also have a read of thiswww.ipsea.org.uk/pages/category/children-out-of-school

as it guides you on how to get alternatives to school set up. Or, tutoring or a place in the alternative provision.

PM me if you like.

Thanks so much!

Google the SEN code of practice to understand what schools should be doing. Sounds like she should be on a SEN support plan if she isn't already.

Has she been assessed for ASD? Girls often display anxiety as one of the signs normally after years of masking well.

Personally, I wouldn't force her in if she's at the point of injuring herself. I know it's hard with work etc , but she is unwell.

I think you need to have a meeting with the SENCO to see if she can be referred to an alternative setting or medical tuition at some point if this continues.

You can make a parental request for an needs assessment for an EHCP which may give your daughter access to a different school. She might need a smaller school for example.

I’m in the same boat with my DS11 year 7. Lots of anxiety, tears, muteness. It’s a very difficult situation. I’ve agreed with the school that DS aims to get in before first period. Form time gives him a 20 minute window and takes the stress out of being late. Some days he won’t get out the car and it’s a win if I get him through the door for any amount of time. He’s fine when he gets there. You’re not on your own, it’s soul destroying to watch how distressed they get

I am off to take my son's to rugby but will log on later

@BurnedToast

Google the SEN code of practice to understand what schools should be doing. Sounds like she should be on a SEN support plan if she isn't already.

Has she been assessed for ASD? Girls often display anxiety as one of the signs normally after years of masking well.

Personally, I wouldn't force her in if she's at the point of injuring herself. I know it's hard with work etc , but she is unwell.

I think you need to have a meeting with the SENCO to see if she can be referred to an alternative setting or medical tuition at some point if this continues.

You can make a parental request for an needs assessment for an EHCP which may give your daughter access to a different school. She might need a smaller school for example.

She is on a support plan, but it isn't really working this academic year. Last year, it was good and her class teacher had some strategies which really seemed to work, so I definitely want to bring that up and ask if it's something that can be replicated.

DD hasn't had a ASD assessment, but she is on the (long) waiting list. I would be interested in knowing more about alternative provision and so on, because at this point I'd give anything a go! I tend to think that a lot of her difficulties are OCD-related. She gets very strong compulsions, and if she can't do her rituals (which she often obviously can't at school) she gets very overwhelmed and tics/meltdowns/panic attacks... It takes up so much of her consciousness that I think it is genuinely very hard for her to focus.

Also not helping is the fact that they are a "no packed lunch" school. I could get DD okayed to have one, but she feels it would make her stick out. The problem is, she has a lot of phobias around food (and things she genuinely can't eat because of her digestive probs) and more often than not she eats a couple of mouthfuls or nothing. She doesn't like the foods touching each other on the plate, so when they invariably do, this is also an issue...

@Characterbuilding

I’m in the same boat with my DS11 year 7. Lots of anxiety, tears, muteness. It’s a very difficult situation. I’ve agreed with the school that DS aims to get in before first period. Form time gives him a 20 minute window and takes the stress out of being late. Some days he won’t get out the car and it’s a win if I get him through the door for any amount of time. He’s fine when he gets there. You’re not on your own, it’s soul destroying to watch how distressed they get

That's so tough, I'm sorry 😞 Is your son in secondary? My daughter is in Y5 (her siblings are in Y4 and Y2, so it's a bit of a mission managing their school run alongside her phobia at the moment).

She's been sick all today with stomach ache, so she's probably not going to be well enough to go in tomorrow anyway (although my DH will probably want to try!).

This does sound a lot more complicated than a child just not liking school and refusing to go. Sounds like she needs a lot more support at school than she is getting.

I would get a private assessment for Autism if you can afford it, then apply for an Ehcp... Which in turn you could then look at more specialist schools for children with extra needs. Or see if you have any really small schools in your area that have an excellent reputation for sen, we moved one of our children as he was struggling and found a really supportive tiny school... Who then got the ehcp sorted. We did pay about 1k for a private assessment because without that, we would have been waiting another 2 years!!!

I remember your previous posts. When you applied for an EHCP earlier this year did the LA refuse to issue? Did you appeal?

@Imitatingdory

I remember your previous posts. When you applied for an EHCP earlier this year did the LA refuse to issue? Did you appeal?

The LA did refuse to issue, and we did not appeal, which I think (with hindsight) was a huge mistake. For a time she seemed much better and also, her last year's class teacher was very clued up and supportive. I don't really participate on the class parents' WhatsApp group of doom, but from my occasional perusal of the chat, it seems that a few parents feel this teacher is a bit over-keen on discipline and same rules for all. I think she is just keen to be seen as fair, ensuring parity, etc. etc.

DH says that getting a private assessment is essentially not worth the paper it's printed on, because the school aren't obliged to pay attention to it and won't.

The school difficulties really flared up again from start of October - she was off sick a lot at that time and I feel like that brought back the fear. Her digestive issues are quite debilitating but it gets awkward because she will play the stomach ache card to get off school when she's actually not unwell. It is sometimes hard to know if she's genuinely feeling ill, got tummy ache from anxiety, or pulling a fast one!

Yes my DS has just started secondary but like your DD the problem started in Y5, he missed a lot of year 5 but things improved when he started seeing a play therapist (provided by the school, once a week at school). She built a rapport with him and he was able to gain confidence and have an outlet. He was still an anxious over-thinker but y6 was much better.
Secondary transition was a struggle, no play therapy anymore and a new environment, I anticipated we might have some problems but unfortunately he regressed right back.
I’m waiting for CAHMS to see if they can provide CBT and some coping strategies. Bless him, he asked me in desperation if anyone can help him to find out why he feels this way?

His new school have been quite good, some days I can’t send him in because he’s in such a state and I have to weigh up the damage it may cause to his long term emotional well-being/his trust in me to listen and protect his MH vs the impact on his education.
I try to set little goals OP, can I encourage him to get dressed? Then we’ll have a cuddle. Can I get him to eat or drink something before we tackle going outside? It’s very tough on my other kids seeing him like this. My DD5 gets upset, especially if events make her late for school as well. I hope you get some support xx

Also my DS gets lots of tummy aches and appetite problems, all exacerbated by the anxiety. It’s a vicious circle.

The thing is, if you have a class of 30 children and 29 of them can do something they’re asked to do easily and one of them can’t, what should happen.

I would say that the teacher is wrong and inflexible. If 29 children can stand in a line and one can’t, you change the rule about standing in a line, so all 30 are able to do whatever is asked. Making the one child who can’t do something, do it, is just going to raise anxiety and ultimately, disrupt everything.

When did the LA carry out the needs assessment? If it is longer than 6 months ago reapply for an EHCNA. Technically you can reapply any time, but if the LA refuse you don't have the right of appeal if a needs assessment has been carried out within 6 months, so I would wait until 6 months. Appeal if you are refused again. The majority of appeals are upheld.

When DD is unable to attend school do you have medical needs tuition?

Independent assessment must be considered, in practice assessments by HCPs also working in the NHS are considered more robust. However, a diagnosis isn't needed for support, and if you are going to pay privately assessments by e.g. an OT may be more useful than an ASD assessment.

schools.westsussex.gov.uk/Page/10483
Not all school based anxiety is rooted in Sen. Good parent guide here and resources to share with school

So there's a certain amount of learning material / classwork habitually made available online this term, so that kids who are Covid positive or waiting for test results can access it. On the occasions she has been absent we've been directed to that. There is teacher feedback, so I guess that this would be sufficient and there is not much basis for us to ask for more (particularly in the current environment).

We are nearly at the 6 month mark so, I feel you are right, and this is more or less what we had decided. Better to wait and apply again.

I find DD's teacher a little... judgy. I'm getting a lot of comments about her behaviour disrupting other children, "can't have her screaming and thrashing around in the classroom", "she went to the bathroom 17 times this afternoon and imagine what the classroom would be like if all the children did that." It annoys me, because DD isn't doing it on purpose and she's not intentionally being disruptive. In fact, she is very self-conscious about drawing attention to herself and one of the main reasons she worries about school is that "people think she's weird". She really can't (currently) control her tics, her compulsions, her emotions.

One unwelcome development has been boys in DD2's year 4 class taunting DD2 about her sister being a "weirdo" and a "freak". DD2 has no reservations about sticking up for herself, but slapping one kid and yanking his hair out probably wasn't the best way to deal with matters. The school (or this one Y6 teacher on duty) dealt with it super well and both kids got a good talking to and it was dropped. Fortunately the boy's parents haven't come and accused DD2 of assault!