Not getting paid for worked time...

[Newbabynewhouse]

Views on this situation people please...

If you work on computers, let's say a call centre.. and you are paid at an hourly rate from 8.30am until 6pm.. Is it unreasonable for the employer to expect you to be sat logged in ready to go at 8.28am and then log out at 6.02pm every day? .... (so you are always "ready" for a call 🙄

4 min. Really ?!? You prob waste more time checking phone in toilets?

@Newbabynewhouse

Surely I'm allowed to have a wee in a 9 hour work day though without being docked ? Do all work places deduct pay for toilet time? ... I maybe I should've taken an extra (uneeded) 4 min loo break then each day and chilled on my phone in the cubicle to make up for the 4 mins they force me to work without pay everyday

No, of course it isn't normal to dock pay for toilet breaks. It just seems oddly petty to worry about 2 mins at the start and end of each day, so I thought that maybe your pettiness was inspired by an equivalent pettiness on the part of your employer. But they're apparently willing to tolerate you spending 4 mins in the toilet without pointing out that your contract doesn't include any provisions for these breaks.

Surely there are bigger things to worry about than a couple of minutes at the start and end of each day!

It's pretty standard in a call centre but I don't agree with it. Employers should pay you for the time they expect you to work. Getting a cup of tea after you get in, no, but logging on is work and if they want you logged on early, they should pay you for it. It's illegal if you are paid minimum wage to expect employees to do work preparation on their own time.

Quite honestly moaning about 4 mins is pathetic. With an attitude like that I can't imagine you will go far in the workplace.

8.25 is not way before 8.28. It is 3 mins.

Just the one break, sometimes an hour sometimes half an hour

So you're querying 4 minutes a day but you're missing 30 minutes lunch break? Were you contracted 30 mins or 60 for lunch? Because if you're working 30 minutes longer than you're getting paid at lunch that's a day off every 2 weeks you're not getting paid...

God it's an eternal race to the bottom in this Country - the Unions might have been out of hand at one time but my goodness me we need them back!
I get to work at my start time, I dock my lap top and turn it on, switch the kettle on and chat to my colleagues - mainly about work - what's happened before I arrived - then I make myself a coffee and sit down and start work!

@TeamRick

God it's an eternal race to the bottom in this Country - the Unions might have been out of hand at one time but my goodness me we need them back! I get to work at my start time, I dock my lap top and turn it on, switch the kettle on and chat to my colleagues - mainly about work - what's happened before I arrived - then I make myself a coffee and sit down and start work!

Which is fine in a standard office but doesn't work in a contact centre. If the phone lines open at 9, then you need to be ready to take a call at that time. We are expected to be ready, brew made and sat down ready to go available at 9am If I log in at 9.01, I'm late. If I take 31 mins for my lunch then I'm late back

My job now I don't often get a late call, and if I do it's maybe 5 mins I'm stuck on it so not long. Previous job I once was stuck on a call 2.5hrs after my finish time, but we did get paid OT! (I was not happy as it was 5am when I finished

Good luck finding somewhere to work that expects less than 4 minutes of unpaid work per day.

It's not about the 4 minutes. It's about:

1. They routinely demand overtime but don't pay for it. With calls running over it will be way more than 4 minutes a day.
2. They are being dickheads about it when OP isn't actually paid at that time.

It's fine to expect give and take and it's fine to expect staff to be logged on to take the first call; but when an employer never gives and constantly takes over petty shit then staff are right to say no.

If everyone said no to employers who act like dickheads then the UK's productivity would be much higher because we'd all be more motivated to work more effectively.

(Before anyone asks I do dozens of unpaid hours each week, but it's my choice and I'm happy to say no when someone tries to order it).

I work 9/5, am always ready to take calls by 9 but wouldn't answer one after 4.50!

I wonder why they don’t just make the contract 0828-1802? Adjust the hourly rate from e.g. £18/hr to £17.97/hr. That way people still get paid the same for the day, but it’s more transparent and honest that the additional time is actually contractual.

I agree the working environment sucks though.

I wouldn't be happy with the 6.02pm thing at all but could cope with taking calls from 8.28am. It seems very unfair that you could have a fifteen minute call at 6.01pm and not get paid for it.

I used to work in Sky’s call centre on tv help. I was always logged in ready to take a call (so get in 15 mins before, switch computer on, get a drink, log in and be ready and waiting with my headset at 8.29). I can’t remember what time I
Finished but say it was 4, if I got off a call at 3.50 I wouldn’t take another. I was supposed to be some calls could last for nearly a hour depending on the issue. If I was stuck on a call for over 15 minutes after my shift I could
Fill a form in and start later/finish earlier for that length of time on another shift but if it was 14 minutes and 59 seconds it was tough. Which was a pain in the arse. My son was in childcare and if I was 15 minutes late I’d have had to pay for a full
Hour so needed to make sure I was out on time

It's quite clear a lot of people here haven't worked in a call centre. At the ones I've worked in you have to be logged in ready to go at your start time, but not available until you actually start. Then if you're not on a call at 6, you log out. It's not on to expect you to regularly stay past your finish time. In that 2 minutes at the end of the day it's quite likely in a busy call centre you'd have taken a call which could be a 2 minute call or it could be a 20 minutes call. You don't get paid for that 20 minutes. So it's not 4 minutes. It's all the times you stay 15-30 minutes for free past the end of your shift. It could be 4 shifts a week, or none, or 6.

It's not a race to the bottom, teachers. You can always go work in a call centre too if you think it'll be better there.

Work to rule while you're working your notice op. Available at 8.30, log out at 6 as per your contacted hours.

[quote Newbabynewhouse]@saltedcaramelanything

See that's the thing... no we arnt allowed to log off at 6.. it all gets watched ... we have to stay until 6.02 even if not on a call, then if a call comes through at 6.01 and last for 15 -20 mins we have to stay and don't get paid more or the time back.. this is the issue[/quote]
Man, I'd hate to work with you or employ you! It's work, not fun! It's just what you have to do to do a good job. I Thank the lord you are not a doctor or police officer with that attitude, oh sorry, you are dying but I finish at six. It's barely anything to suck up, 4 mins. I wouldn't even notice it in my job.. Get a bit of a life if that's all you have to moan about.

Try working for a company that insists you have to be still working at your finish time, which they won't pay you for. If finish a minute early though and it's stealing company time. Essentially means you work an way past your finish time as go from house to house and they don't offer travel time for the first and last 30 minutes so that's another hour to get to first job. Essentially means your working an extra minimum 1.5 hours a day extra. Plus if productively is down, you have to make that up for free too.

I see logging on is part of the job, ie. a work task needed to be done in order to do the “greater” job ie. help customers. I’d view it as long as I’m sat at my desk by 8.30am, I’m not late. If being at your desk and logging on at 8.30 means you are only ready take your first call at 8.35 or whatever, thats not your problem as you’ve been doing your job since 8.30.

I am paid hourly and I clock in and out. My first work task is to clock in and I get paid from that point. It’s not office work so my employer knows that it’s going to take a few minutes to get set up before I can start doing my actual work. But that setting up is work, so I get paid to set up.

Cleaning up is the same. My last task is to clock out so that’s when I stop getting paid. Takes all of 2 seconds.

None of us take the piss by clocking in and then not starting work… we are there to work to get paid, so we get on with it. Same with breaks and loo breaks. My boss is not an idiot. She knows we’ve got to pee so as long as we don’t go off and chat or whatever, we don’t have to clock out.

If anyone did clock in and loaf about, or take ridiculously long breaks for no good reason, they would be pulled up on that and not last very long. Which is fair.

I don’t know why employers think it’s ok to pay people per hour, without them clocking in and out.

I see logging on is part of the job, ie. a work task needed to be done in order to do the “greater” job ie. help customers.
Yes! I’ve worked places where you have to track individual tasks and one of those is generic “admin tasks” including the logging on, wheel of doom moments, etc – rough allowance of 30m per day on this kind of filler versus more active tasks. But you were considered to be working from the minute you stepped through the door, not from when your computer booted up. Even making a tea was work because you might chat to a colleague and pick up some info, or have your mind on work and thus could file it under “thinking time”

I work on a call centre and it's the same (although I wouldn't take calls before my start time) Im pretty sure it's standard, I often get stuck on a call after my finish time but don't get paid for it

I worked in a call centre for years.
Log on to computer 15 mins before shift to ensure all windows are open, phone working etc.
Log on to phone and go straight into available at 08:30 but not a minute sooner.
If a call runs over 6pm, we were given the time back, but wouldn't have to take a new call after the shift ended.

Maybe the management want you to log on a little early so that you're available for customers at the start of your shift as opposed to logging on, setting up your computer etc at the start and not ready to take calls for the first 5 mins.

If you worked on a supermarket till, you wouldn't walk into the supermarket at 08:30 on the button. You'd walk in about 8:15, leave your bag and coat in the staff room then be at your till, ready to serve customers at 08:30.... it's the same thing g

[quote Newbabynewhouse]@AnathemaPulsifer

I have worked a few different jobs over the years, this job was the only job that timed you by watching your log in times and critising them to the T... I have no issue of coming in early of my own accord to help out or staying later to help out.. but I won't be told I'm late when I'm early and I won't be criticised for leaving at 6.01 Instead of 6.02 ... having to pay each minute back to them if late but nothing back for working a possible 20 mins extra each day[/quote]
@Newbabynewhouse I think I understand the issue here. You leaving work at 6:01PM rather than 6:02PM or starting at 8:29PM insisted of 8:28PM causes an issue at your workplace despite the fact that you’re already at your workplace early and have logged into the system at 8:25AM and your official start time is 8:30 AM? And that if you’re stuck on a call, you might finish at 6:15PM or 6:20PM? Is that correct?

If so, do you get paid extra when the calls run overtime?

@WatchMyChops

That is exactly it yes.... and no we don't get paid for it.. in fact, if we are ever 1 min late we are expected to pay it back but don't get paid for any extra, even of stuck on a call for 20 mins...

Also want to add that for other PP,s that I am on living wage not £20 an hour (nowhere near) I was also adding overtime onto that and rounded up to nearest hundred

At my place (also call centre) in this scenario they don't pay us for the time past the finish time if you're on a call. However they give us the time back. But it has to be at least 15 minutes over that you're on that call to qualify.

Perhaps you could suggest this

I hear you, OP - and I completely agree with you. It's the fact that they expect you to do part of your work (booting up a computer, logging in etc.) unpaid and then claim that only your actual customer-facing/hearing time is actual work - the rest is so petty as not to be worth paying, yet is somehow nevertheless important enough for them to insist on it! They value your time only insofar as it can make them money, but otherwise, your time is considered worthless.

Why is it 'only a few minutes' to you but never the same to the employer? And then others who are taken advantage even more of than you are come on and tell you that you should be grateful!!

Conversely if you sat down at your desk at 9am then turned on your computer and logged in you would be overpaid by several hundred pounds a year.

Not at all. This would only be true if OP did not need to do any logging on in order to do her job, yet somehow still insisted on spending two minutes each day in her unrelated unusual personal 'hobby' of 'unnecessarily turning on a random computer' before beginning work, all on the company's time.

If I were going to a concert (for my own enjoyment) that started at 8pm, I would expect to arrive there at least 5 minutes early - giving up 5 minutes of MY time, to be prepared to do something that I want to do - to be ready for when the main thing started. Similarly, if I were attending a meeting that my employer insisted I be present at, and they (wisely) expected me to be there 5 minutes early, that extra 5 minutes would be part of the whole task and thus payable by the person paying for the whole task.

You wouldn't pay a painter by the hour to decorate your living room and then only expect to pay him for the time he's actually slapping paint on the wall - telling him that you expect him to prepare the surfaces and materials, protect the carpets, move furniture etc. and then tidy away afterwards, all in his own, unpaid time - just because you don't personally see a direct tangible benefit to the time he takes doing those crucial parts of the job for which you're paying him.