Is it normal for a new employer to ask for GP letter?

[Sabire9]

Son, just turned 18 was interviewed and offered a job with a national pizza chain on Friday. When he filled out the paperwork accepting the job he checked the box which asked him if he had a health condition - he has a mental health diagnosis and revealed this to the manager when asked.

He was due to start training this week but he manager of the restaurant has now told him he needs a letter from his GP confirming that he's safe to work in a kitchen. I called the GP's surgery and the receptionist told me a) this is a fairly unusual request and b) it'll take 28 days. In the meantime son has no income and no start date.

Has anyone else been asked to do something like this? I know that if you've been off sick for a while employers sometimes ask for a letter to confirm you're ok to return to work, but my son isn't currently unwell or asking for time off. He wants to work!

It really is shocking but I think that it’s better for your DS to know now, at 18, with you there to support him.

If it helps I think that it’s thinking in the abstract that brings out this reaction - if you ask people about whether a Joe Bloggs with a mental health condition should need to prove they’re safe to work you’re more likely to get this response. If you ask them whether Joe, the man they often chat to at the pub or Joanne they’ve worked with for 6 months should need to prove they’re safe to work the answer is likely to be different. It’s still shitty but it does mean that prejudice, and the fear that goes with it, can be overcome with familiarity.

Do we say someone with epilepsy should not be in certain jobs incase they have a seizure and cause an accident? no of course not as that is discriminatory.

Errrm actually yes, there are certain jobs that people with epilepsy cannot do. A family member of mine cannot get a drivers licence for instance because he could have a seizure behind the wheel, that rules out any jobs involving driving. He has also lost his job working with heavy machinery because his seizures meant he was no longer to operate them. I have severe mental illnesses, the GP letter will be very unlikely to tell the employer anything other than what your sons diagnosis is. I've been asked for similar letters before and they will not disclose any personal information they can't tell someone else how a condition affects you, only that you do have that condition and that you take x medication for it. That's all. So your sons future employer might be dissaointed.

They should be doing this through occupational health. They act in behalf of employers but with medical knowledge. The management at the pizza restaurant are presumably not trained doctors and couldn't asses his doctors note anyway and the GP doesn't know about working in a kitchen and the likely elements of the job that could be dangerous to your son eg working shifts. I don't see that either person is qualified to assess

it’s not discriminatory though. They can’t start his employment until all his checks are done so they don’t pay him till then. A school wouldn’t pay a teacher till the DBS came through.

For the record, I’ve just filled out a civil service application and the health questions ask specifically whether the health issue weight/will affect your work, not just if you have any illnesses . So my lifelong anxiety / depression is irrelevant and I have ticked no for all of it.

You don’t need to tell us, but I really do think it makes a difference what his illness is. If it’s anxiety/depression then these diagnoses are made at the drop of a hat, must affect a huge number of the population and are totally irrelevant to some part time job in hospitality that he’ll only do for a year or so and can quit if it gets to much. If this is the case I would reiterate my earlier advice to sack this off and look elsewhere and keep quiet next time.

If he has a schizophrenia or something else more serious then I think it’s unfortunately quite reasonable that if he’s working with kitchen knives/ heavy machinery that they check his illness is well managed.

If he has a schizophrenia or something else more serious then I think it’s unfortunately quite reasonable that if he’s working with kitchen knives/ heavy machinery that they check his illness is well managed.

Is that your opinion as a competent mental health professional?

[quote WhatDidISayAlan]@ftw163532 - I wasn’t saying that at all, and you know it. Don’t put words into my mouth.[/quote]
I don't know any such thing. You wrote a defence of the assumption that someone with a mental illness is a danger to others and can be treated adversely as a result of that assumption.

What were you saying then if not what you wrote?

Also as someone with mental illnesses I have had to accept that there are jobs that I can't do and will never be able to do unfortunately. I wanted to be a police officer, but I take medication for my illness daily and can't function without it and so I will never be able to do the job that I wanted to do. Working in a kitchen shouldn't be something your son is prohibited from but they will want to know if it is too stressful for him/likely to trigger an episode/if he is prone to violence/blackouts/psychosis which could all put him or others at risk but they really should be going through occupational health for that. (you haven't said what his diagnosis is but those are things that might be considered).

This forum is a really bad place to come for advice on disability discrimination, because there are always posters who defend the discrimination based on sharing the same prejudices themselves.

I second pp's recommendation to take advice from Acas.

It's not that uncommon for employers to do something similar, I've only ever known it done through occupational health as pre checks which seems the more appropriate way to do it. As it goes (I have a diagnosed mh condition that I have had to declare for several jobs) its probably working with knives etc possibly somewhat alone at times if others are in different areas of the kitchen, i don't think it's absolutely wild but they should do it through a more appropriate channel.

@Sabire9

"Wouldnt be surprised by this. He’ll be working with knives and other peoples’ food"

Are you assuming that because he has a mental health condition it's quite reasonable to assume he may be a risk to other people?

Unfortunately without the doctor's letter they will not know if he is a risk to other, to himself or he is perfectly safe to work in a hot, high stress environment with lots of knives around.

And it's reasonable not to pay my son until this has been done? And that he's responsible for arranging it and paying for it?

That would depend, are they not paying him for work he is doing, or are they not starting his employment until they can sign off on health and safety?

It seems like they are making a very clumsy attempt to comply with occupational health requirements. I would probably speak to Citizen's Advice to check the actual legal position, but my opinion would be that they are fine to ask for it and has he has not yet commenced employment, let alone completed two years he has virtually no employment rights anyway.

@Rupertpenrysmistress

What a horrible situation, this is why people don't tell anyone about MH problems. I am a nurse with MH problems,this has never caused anyone to question me. Should I not be doing my job either? Where do you stop with this rubbish? Op you sound like a great mum and I would do the same for my 18 year old.

Your ds needs to know it's ok to work with MH problems. Do we say someone with epilepsy should not be in certain jobs incase they have a seizure and cause an accident? no of course not as that is discriminatory.

Do we say someone with epilepsy should not be in certain jobs incase they have a seizure and cause an accident? no of course not as that is discriminatory.

Actually we do, or at least if they have had a seizure within the last 6-12 months. They will often need to be medicated and there are some professions that they are barred from (being a pilot of any kind, they need a neurologist's assessment before being allowed to drive commercially, not allowed to work in certain high risk roles in heavy industry, diving, rigs etc.). Health and safety is based on risk, it is not based on being nice and fluffy.

@Sabire9

"if he’s old enough and well enough to work he should be able to do this - perhaps that’s what they meant by unusual?"

Did you mean to be so rude?

Have you had any experience of parenting or advocating for a mentally ill teenager?

If he's mentally ill then the letter is more than appropriate.

@ftw163532

I gave an example (not a defence) of an incident where an employee was a danger to his colleagues.

I gave an example where my late brother considered his own disability a danger (and mitigated accordingly to the extent he would not even carry or bath his own baby on his own).

Judging by your response to my post, and to others, you're obviously either not reading posts properly, or are just picking for a fight today. Either way, consider our conversation closed.

I think, as others have said, it's worth thinking about how hard you want to fight this.

This is unfair/discriminatory, and as others have said, it ought to go via occupational health instead. But I think it's worth considering a) if this is somewhere he still wants to work and b) if it's worth starting off his time working there with a fight of this kind.

Unfortunately the law is pretty feeble in this way, and it's likely to take more than 28 days to resolve.

There are loads of people looking for kitchen staff, so I think he'd be better off finding a different employer.

(That said, it is true that legally not everyone can do every job. There are some health conditions that are seen as not being compatible with teaching, for example).

@ftw163532

If he has a schizophrenia or something else more serious then I think it’s unfortunately quite reasonable that if he’s working with kitchen knives/ heavy machinery that they check his illness is well managed.

Is that your opinion as a competent mental health professional?

it’s either irrelevant in which case he had no reason to mention it or it’s very relevant and his employer is reasonable to need proof he’s ok to work on this role. This is just such an artificial problem he’s accidentally created for himself for a probably entry level job. Just get him to find another one and start again.

"Sorry OP but not all companies have occupational health"

This is a long established international chain of restaurants with hundreds of outlets in the UK.