Quick work advice for this morning if possible?

[Onatree]

Posting on chat to see if anyone has quick advice. Have recently stepped down from a fairly senior role in my organisation to return fully to my also senior departmental role. This decision was result of various structural issues which ultimately ended up being shit for my wellbeing, and said structural issues were decisions made by very senior person at helm of organisation.

Said person has accepted with regret my stepping down but ….. has asked for the chance to talk things through, still. Which is today. It’s sort of like an exit interview except that I am most def not exiting the organisation and thus must not burn any bridges but equally don’t want this to go down as “she couldn’t cope with heat in kitchen “ - when all other leadership roles I’ve had locally or internationally have gone swimmingly.

Any tips and thoughts on how to approach this? Part of me doesn’t want to get into the 57 million reasons why this didn’t work as don’t want him to take apart and counter each point. But then again don’t just want to say it wrecked my MH because then it totally glosses over structural issues.

It’s not an exit interview from the organisation - but an exit interview from this senior role - so hard to know. people say a shit sandwich is a good idea - which I get … but as to what the shit filling should constitute - I am unsure. I am so exhausted by it all that chewing it through with him and telling him how things needed to have been different feels onerous.

Also worried about whether I will either be blamed and called a quitter …. Or if he will try to make me change my mind. Neither option is likeable as I thought this one through super carefully…

Any tips?

Imagine you were a man. I'm assuming you're a woman. A man wouldn't worry about him countering your issues. Tell him the truth, tell him as though you're teaching him.

Don't bring your mental health into it. Just tell him 'it didn't work for me" and "That wasn't a good approach for me"

They probably know they have not made the best decisions and will appreciate some honesty. You don’t have to be dramatic about it, just be factual. Don’t slag the decisions off, just say they were unsustainable and that you felt it wasn’t worth the sacrifices to your family. Don’t cry or get emotional and then they can’t say you are unhinged!
If this person is such a megalomaniac that they can’t respect this, then I would be looking at jobs elsewhere. Good luck Op and keep emotion out of it!

I’d try to pick out just the major issues, especially those that you think they might be able to change. Too often I see someone with really valid points drown them out by including every tiny nitpicking complaint, which then means what should be the main points aren’t taken as seriously.

Just say you think you’d be better suited to another role, and say as little as possible beyond that. This is a situation where they’ll probably argue against every point you make, so give them as little as possible to work with.

Bullet point what happened. That will help you structure the response.

It sounds less formal than an exit interview? More of a chat about where did we go wrong in the restructure to lose you in that role?

Im with @Kiitos on this. You’ve got to continue to work in the organisation-telling the ceo about major structural issues he/she is responsible for cannot be the way to go

I’d go with a variation on preferring previous role / being effective in that area etc

I agree with previous posters in terms of being unapologetically objective. There were obviously structural issues to address. Tell him it's not in your best interests to continue with the role. It doesn't have to be anything more complicated than that.

Is there anything that would entice you to stay? Like a pay rise?

I think three things:

1. Can you frame it as looking forward for the next person to do the job? What would it be useful to do/change? Never mind if that is reversing previous decisions, just think about which bits don’t work and how they could be improved. You can also talk generally - structural problems are detrimental to employee well being. Assume that your colleague wants to improve matters, not have a go at you.

1. Also frame it as you preferred your other role if it gets into you personally.

1. Also politely be clear that there is a limit to how much you are prepared to discuss it if things go off track and become about you personally. Be clear you are there to discuss forward planning for the next person who takes the role.

I had an exit interview for a job that destroyed my mental health but didn’t want to burn my bridges with the organisation as it’s a small world in my job, I decided to pick out 3 main points about why I was leaving and how this could be improved and ended it with saying ultimately it wasn’t the right role for me

Wow thanks a lot all. A lot of diversity in the responses. The best example for fundamentally what happened is this -

Say a super rich couple hires the best wedding planner they find to organise a wedding. They choose a person who is progressive energetic and a real breath of fresh air. They pay this person a retainer for her time. This person is super excited for a creative task! Immerses herself into it - and then discovers …..

That the couple won’t actually pay for the wedding. There’s no money for food, music, venue. Guests already invited start asking for details but nope: no money. Couple say they have lots of money - vaguely - but when it comes to actually committing money to the very task they have recruited planner for : there’s uhm long silences and next to nothing. Guests (who know about this mega wedding) keep asking for news/updates and gradually figure out nothing will actually happen out of this.

After a while the wedding planner realises that her retainer fee isn’t enough for her. She can’t actually “do” anything with her position of great responsibility/visibility and no power, there is accumulating impact on her wellbeing and she’s constantly second guessing herself and finally decides this gig isn’t for her.

Now powerful couple - who are sad to see her go - want a chat after she’s quit.

This is a bad example because in this case I’m not a freelancer and this is actually a large organisation where I love all sorts of things including my fabulous department and my main senior role to which I can now return FT.

It’s just been so mentally draining. … and I am so DONE.

In terms of the PP who raised man/woman issue - pretty sure that’s also got a role.

Youngish, new mum, woman-of-colour me and white, extremely senior, male him.

I genuinely had thought that their decision to hire me to this role was a good one - we need more women leaders, we need more leaders balancing children and work, and I genuinely jumped at the role when it was advertised.

The role in reality was alas completely different.

If your example is fairly close to the reality there seems to be lots you can say objectively in terms of promised budget not being allocated where needed to enable you to successfully achieve [task].

@eurochick

If your example is fairly close to the reality there seems to be lots you can say objectively in terms of promised budget not being allocated where needed to enable you to successfully achieve [task].

Agree - can be objective here

Do you have some constructive suggestions as to how things could be done better? Both in terms of making your role viable, and the organisation as a whole? This is an opportunity to be listened to. It's clear you are valued if they want to have this conversation. Don't underestimate yourself. Keep it positive rather than a list of complaints.

You need to work out why they have asked for this meeting. Probably not to learn (even if that is what they say and even think) but in fact to argue with your reasons because they feel defensive. If you need to continue in the organisation don't get drawn in. See it as an opportunity to establish that you move roles with no hard feelings. Don't make specific criticisms, or if you do, frame it as external circumstances making the original vision impossible

Following with interest as I have been put in a similar situation at work.

If your analogy is accurate then you don’t need to mention the effects on you or your mental health at all. You can say that you were initially excited about the role because of this, this and this, however you realised that what you wanted to achieve was not possible because of this, therefore you would rather focus your energies on your other role.
My husband is a fairly senior executive and I always imagine how he would approach things. Rightly or wrongly he would never mention his mental health or impact on his family. He would make it clear that his decision was firmly the responsibility of the company and its failings, he would not dream of taking responsibility for something that was not his fault, and he wouldn’t feel guilty about it for a second.

Good luck @Onatree and let us know how it goes 👍

You just say that the role was toothless, there was no way for you to effect change while the budget for the changes didn't exist. Therefore, you've decided to go back to a role where you can be effective.

And perhaps say, if ever you want to fund it properly, I'm your woman! Until then, best of luck.

Thanks everyone. We had the conversation - it was fairly honest I'd say and he did hear me. He realised at least 2 -3 things which needed fixing and were a fairly simple fix and it was all quite amicable. Thanks for your thoughts - they genuinely helped.

👍

Well done OP!