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Original poster

This is why A&E is overwhelmed

594 replies

PackedintheUK · 25/10/2021 12:52

And it's nothing to do with over anxious patients seeking "unnecessary" medical care.

I have a very sore very swollen ankle as a result of an insect bite. I've asked advice at the pharmacy and been told it looks nasty, see your GP, you probably need antibiotics.

So I've tried. I've been calling GP surgery all morning and finally got through to have receptionist incredulously say "you want to see a doctor for a gnat bite?" and then be told the next appointment is 16 Nov.

Me: but pharmacist said I need seeing urgently.
Receptionist: All the emergency appointments are gone for today. You'll have to call back tomorrow.
Me: but I've been calling all morning, won't the same thing happen tomorrow?
Receptionist: Well I can't do anything about that, if you're that worried go to A&E

So,I'm not sure that I am "that" worried, but I have been told by someone better qualified than me that I should be seen. We lost a colleague to sepis this year, a fit young woman and it happened incredibly quickly, plus I have a friend currently in hospital on intravenous antibiotics from a very similar looking bite he got at the same park.

I also don't actually feel that well.My body aches and feels heavy and I'm a bit queasy, which could be coincidence or my imagination.

Probably/hopefully it is nothing that won't heal itself in a few days but it feels irresponsible not to take the advice I've been given. Also to go to A&E

So A&E for something that could (probably) have been dealt with in a matter of seconds in a GP (telephone/video?) appointment?

There's no walk in or minor injuries here.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 27/10/2021 22:48

@FrankiesKnuckle

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/patient-ies-in-back-of-addenbrooke-s-mbulance-8441246

This is worrying. And as we barrel towards the actual winter pressures this could be more than a one off episode.
During last winters second wave peak, it was not uncommon to be held on an ambulance for several hours - and this was also for priority calls in (blue light calls) I recall many 'big sick' covid and non covid patients being held for anything up to 4/5 hours on an ambulance. There was no space then, there is no space now but the difference is that we are not in peak wave. We are not in peak winter.
Terrifying.

My elderly aunt was held in an ambulance for hours, then on a trolley in a corridor, it was eleven hours after the ambulance picked her up before she actually got into a bed. 84 and hadn't had a drink or anything to eat. That was January 2019. I'm sure covid made it worse but it wasn't unheard of before the pandemic.
FrankiesKnuckle · 27/10/2021 22:57

@ancientgran I agree, it has happened each winter for years, it tended to be pockets of pressure that would sort itself out. This is something different.
I am a paramedic of 22 years and I have never seen such sustained pressure in services. We see peaks on Monday's and Fridays in winters as we have done in years, but to be held on an average mild Wednesday for 2.5 hours for a bed in the ED is not normal. To have no beds in the ED at 0600 is not normal. To have people queuing to get in to an ED at 0300 on a Thursday is not normal. I could go on. We are at near collapse in my trust, it is literally the goodwill of staff that keeps us going.

PricklesTheHedgehog · 27/10/2021 23:05

How's your leg, OP?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General health
Malibuismysecrethome · 28/10/2021 08:00

Frankiesknuckles as a paramedic if you see a peaks on Fridays and Mondays I wonder if patients could access a doctor over the weekend it would take the pressure off the ambulance service and A&E departments. A rota of GP’s who would be on call Friday evening and Saturday morning and possibly on Sunday. I don’t think we can carry on with the present system.
My GP surgery is still operating the way they did during lockdown, no sign of actually getting a face to face appointment.

cptartapp · 28/10/2021 09:19

Mali this would be impossible for most GP practices, see my precious response as to why. And there are out of hours GP's available all weekend, just not necessarily based at your usual surgery.

ancientgran · 28/10/2021 09:26

[quote FrankiesKnuckle]@ancientgran I agree, it has happened each winter for years, it tended to be pockets of pressure that would sort itself out. This is something different.
I am a paramedic of 22 years and I have never seen such sustained pressure in services. We see peaks on Monday's and Fridays in winters as we have done in years, but to be held on an average mild Wednesday for 2.5 hours for a bed in the ED is not normal. To have no beds in the ED at 0600 is not normal. To have people queuing to get in to an ED at 0300 on a Thursday is not normal. I could go on. We are at near collapse in my trust, it is literally the goodwill of staff that keeps us going. [/quote]
It wouldn't be unusual in the hospital I was referring to. An 84 year old in an ambulance for several hours, still on a trolley at 2 am, she was so badly hurt from the fall that she had a couple of hours in a bed and then went into theatre at 8 am. It was a Thursday if that helps in late January.

I know how bad it is as my DIL is a doctor in the same trust. Obviously it has got worse but we weren't starting for a place that was anywhere near adequate on a national level. It might be the national health service but the standard of care isn't the same across the nation.

My local hospital is very different, I've had an emergency admission and so has one of my kids. Admittedly mine was a Friday afternoon in summer, my son was a weekend in February. Both treated very quickly and in a bed in a ward in under 2 hrs.

Different area, different problems, I understand to you your experience is the norm but it varies tremendously.

NobbyButtons · 28/10/2021 09:33

My DD recently had similar after being stung by a wasp or horsefly, I'm not sure which, My inclination was to leave it to get better but it was still very sore and swollen after a day. Rang 111, told to go to A&E. She ended up being seen by four doctors as the more junior one thought it might have been a covid-related clot. The most doctor said it was just a swelling not an infection and would go away after rest. It would have been much easier if a nurse or GP could have offered advice but it was a three-week wait for a GP appointment here, even pre-pandemic.

Malibuismysecrethome · 28/10/2021 10:25

I’m not sure about anyone else but I think a leaflet to all households advising what to do if you need out of hours medical advice would be helpful.
Does a GP call you back if you call 111 or do they advise going to A&E.

Why were the Nightingale hospitals shut down if we have so many waiting in ambulances outside hospitals. Surely a couple could have been staffed and kept open. I think it is all so wasteful. What happened to all the beds and equipment, probably sold for scrap.

tigerbear · 28/10/2021 12:58

That’s a really good point @Malibuismysecrethome! What the hell happened to it all?

Athinginitself · 28/10/2021 13:16

No staff to staff them! You'd just be taking staff from other areas, it's really difficult in a lot of settings at the moment to even get any bank cover in emergencies.

Malibuismysecrethome · 28/10/2021 13:32

A poster up thread says her husband is earning £900 a day and someone else mentions locums earning considerable amounts. The NHS is being given £5.9 billion extra to sort out the queues.

Athinginitself · 28/10/2021 15:23

But it takes time to train extra staff, the ones who can and want to be working extra shifts or taking on new work are already doing it, obviously there are exceptions but there's not loads of doctors and nurses sitting at home waiting for a nightingale to open.

user1497207191 · 28/10/2021 16:55

@Athinginitself

But it takes time to train extra staff, the ones who can and want to be working extra shifts or taking on new work are already doing it, obviously there are exceptions but there's not loads of doctors and nurses sitting at home waiting for a nightingale to open.
So why have Nightingales been part of the disaster/pandemic planning for years? Did no one think about staffing them?
Malibuismysecrethome · 28/10/2021 17:49

So effectively the £5.9 billion won’t sort out the queues and will disappear into a black hole

Athinginitself · 28/10/2021 18:48

I really don't think they did think about staffing no. I think the pandemic plan was a total disaster and we are seeing the consequences of it now. The problem is it's longer term planning and investment that's needed, just moving from one election cycle to the next (at most) means that investment and planning is a disaster.

tigerbear · 28/10/2021 20:28

I’ve just heard that my BIL who went to A&E on Saturday with severe heart pains and sat and waited 18 hours without being admitted (they did some tests in the corridor and told him to come back in 2 weeks for a scan) has had massive heart failure, and now being transferred to one of the major London hospitals for a triple bypass.

The fact that he couldn’t be seen on Saturday is shocking.

LuluJakey1 · 28/10/2021 21:14

So, I took my aunt for her blood and urine tests at the GP today. Despite them booking the appointment, they could find no record of it but agreed to see her. There were notes from the GP following his visit on Monday- her weight has dropped from 78kg to 55kg in 11 months but he is putting that down to stress over my uncle's death.
Her urine test had protein in it - but the nurse said 'Not much' and she would tell the GP.
No blood test had been requested but the nurse went in to see him and he had forgotten to write those up.
We asked, as he had suggested, for the phone number for physiotherapy to follow up the referral made in March which has never been acted on. The surgery gave us a number for a hospital who put us through to physiotherapy who have never received a referral. They connected us to Community Physiotherapy who have no referral either. Back to GP who says it was sent in March but will send it again- 4 month waiting list.
Stool sample kit has not arrived.
It is truly just awful at the minute.

GreenLunchBox · 28/10/2021 22:05

@tigerbear

I’ve just heard that my BIL who went to A&E on Saturday with severe heart pains and sat and waited 18 hours without being admitted (they did some tests in the corridor and told him to come back in 2 weeks for a scan) has had massive heart failure, and now being transferred to one of the major London hospitals for a triple bypass.

The fact that he couldn’t be seen on Saturday is shocking.

That is shocking and extremely worrying
tigerbear · 29/10/2021 07:34

@GreenLunchBox it really is.
He could barely move or speak as was in so much pain. He was only admitted several days later as his wife drove him back to hospital, and he collapsed in the car park.
They’ve now confirmed that he’s had a heart attack.

Xenia · 29/10/2021 07:44

It has got to the point that everyone who pays income tax 20% of the income tax you pay goes on the NHS. If we are getting just about no adequate service for it give us a right to opt out, a 20% reduction on that annual tax bill and let us use that money to pay privately for immediate services. Then we can leave the NHS as a residual service for those in financial need.

DumplingsAndStew · 29/10/2021 08:37

@Xenia

Because removing some of the money NHS get is going to help?

ChequerBoard · 29/10/2021 09:14

@xenia what private emergency services are you aware of?

Going private for a GP appointment, consultant opinion or elective surgery
Is one thing but there is no opt-out possible for emergency treatment.

If you have a car accident or suffer a fall, there aren't any private A&E departments for you to go to. Private hospitals are not equipped or staffed for this kind of work. There is very scant if any ITU provision at most private hospitals and there are no private A&E or Trauma Consultants.

Hodgehog · 29/10/2021 09:16

I actually think there will be some more private A and E before long.

There’s already one near Manchester I think.

user1497207191 · 29/10/2021 09:45

@Xenia

It has got to the point that everyone who pays income tax 20% of the income tax you pay goes on the NHS. If we are getting just about no adequate service for it give us a right to opt out, a 20% reduction on that annual tax bill and let us use that money to pay privately for immediate services. Then we can leave the NHS as a residual service for those in financial need.
I can't understand why there can't be an NHS "contribution" towards private fees when going private saves the NHS money.

The NHS says it costs £50 for a GP appointment, so why don't they pay that as a contribution towards a private GP appointment, so, say, the NHS pays £50 and the patient pays the difference.

My OH needed a MRI scan for his cancer, he couldn't use the enclosed NHS scanner, so had to go private for an open MRI scanner. That cost him £1,000. The NHS said it costs them £200 for a "normal" MRI scan, so why didn't the NHS pay the £200 it saved leaving my OH to pay the difference of £800.

It's a win-win for the NHS by reducing demand and waiting times etc and doesn't cost any more than if they were doing it "in house".

user1497207191 · 29/10/2021 09:46

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@Xenia

Because removing some of the money NHS get is going to help?[/quote]
You're reducing demand which ultimately reduces waiting lists etc for everyone else.