NHS Doctors do you enjoy your job?

[LakerThanLake]

DD (15) is adamant she wants to be a doctor. She has wanted to be a paediatrician since she was 10 years old and loves anything to do with science and medicine. She is very academic and from the POV I don't think it's unrealistic. She's got bags of empathy but can keep a cool head when things are challenging, all in all probably not bad skills for the profession?

However, we live in England and the NHS seems on its knees, hospitals are understaffed and doctors and nurses work their socks off. It appears that the future of healthcare is bleak in this country?

With all this in mind, if you are a doctor, do you actually enjoy your job? What is it that you like about it and what keeps you going? Are there any positives?

Anaesthetist. And yes I do mainly. I love being I theatre and my colleagues there. I like obstetrics and being present for the sections and making people pain free during labour. I do a lot of pre ok assessment and have have plenty of opportunities to improve and envelop services there which is challenging but exciting. I really don’t like Intensive care which obviously I’ve done a lot of this year. I don’t enjoy the subtle and not so subtle pressure that is put on us all the time to cut corners, do more, do extra, give up non-clinical time to do an extra operation, always worrying about whether there is going to be a full quota of doctors on duty with you that day and worrying there is a bed for the patient afterwards.

Being a junior doctor looks very different to how it did when I trained 20 years ago and it’s easy to think it’s better/worse/enviable/unsurvivable depending on your viewpoint (and frame of mind that day) but it’s just different.
Ultimately it’s just a job. A well paying one with job security (you’re never going to be super-rich as an NHS doctor but you will be comfortable) and one with a lot of responsibility but just a job. And the culture of the hospital or department can make or break it like any other workplace. If you hate you walk away and do something else. I wouldn’t discourage my children from going into medicine if they really want but I’m not pushing them towards it either.

Too many typos. I’m tired. Probably the anaesthetic gases.

Oh and I’m not sure I buy the argument we could paid so much more elsewhere. I looked when I was particularly disillusioned and couldn’t find anything that came remotely close to the money I was earning as a senior junior doctor. And while they weren’t expected to work night shifts all my friends who were on similar salaries in the financial sector or other professions were definitely expected to put in similar hours.

Oh and one last thing and then I’ll go to bed. The whole public sector package is good - decent maternity pay, proper sick pay and despite its problems a good pension scheme.

Can I ask Doctors another question. All the doctors I know h not only had parents who were doctors but their DC are doing medicine, it's almost expected. Do your own DC want to do medicine? Would you encourage it?

@Rosemaryandlemon

I’m a barrister, not a doctor, but we have lots of friends in professional fields and to be honest very few want their children to follow them into the field/recommend it to others. I always tell my children not to be a barrister. You work crazy hours, no sick pay, no maternity pay. You will spend holidays working. I do get paid well though, but a lot of barristers don’t. It’s also a very adversarial culture loads of robing room rubbish.

But we have friends who are doctors, vets, teachers, management consultant and I know not one who would recommend their job.

So my advice tell her to win the lottery!

I work in a GP surgery and can say all the GPs and any other doctors I meet don't want their children to follow them but then so say people from every other profession I meet, including my own

I am not sure there is any profession that offers a smooth and rewarding career now but healthcare will always be needed and, hopefully, things will improve

@Upsky

Can I ask Doctors another question. All the doctors I know h not only had parents who were doctors but their DC are doing medicine, it's almost expected. Do your own DC want to do medicine? Would you encourage it?

My parents weren't doctors, my DSs are too young. I'd support them if they wanted to do it, but wouldn't push them towards it.

I'm a senior registrar (1 year off being a consultant) in anaesthetics. Most of the time I love it. The clinical stuff, almost always - though it wouldn't be too upsetting not too have to do it at 3am! My specialty is generally supportive and friendly and I've never had any problems with bullying. I've had two mat leaves and been part time for the last few years and it's worked pretty well.

Like everyone else, don't like the politics, the pressure, the lack of beds, constant bullshit from the government.

No I fucking hate my job right now
This has been true at many times over the last 20+ yrs of my career but I am too stuck to change now

You'll never change her mind though
When I was your DDs age people tried to tell me and I thought I knew better (arrogance of youth)

The pay is decent, there's still a good pension and there's great job security.

Vs the hours, the relentless emotional and physical graft of it, the level of abuse often, the fear of making a terrible fatal error and just the never ending nature of it. I mean really we are all going to die so medicine is the ultimate exercise in futility when it comes down to it. I try not to let myself think like that but it's hard to 'Unsee' once you've had that thought. I sometimes wonder why I am bothering.

It has changed me for sure and not necessarily for the good. I was explaining to my PT that I had a black eye because a patient punched me in the face and he was visibly shocked. For a split second I could see it through his eyes that it's not normal to put up with that at work but in medical culture you suck that shit up and you don't complain. Even for me that was quite a bad one but verbal abuse is daily and physical about a monthly event so it barely registered. I took 15 mins out to have a cry and put some ice on it and I went back to work. Mid pandemic, no other Drs who weren't sick or quarantined so no choice. My colleagues also expected that of me. No way would going home because you got punched be a thing you would do unless you needed medical attention yourself.

I have nerves of steel because I tolerate a lot of risk and high emotion on a daily basis. I am a bit numb now. Stuff doesn't shock me that really ought to.
I remember when I first started and I used to cry when patients died or had bad news and now I barely ever do.
I like adrenaline producing stuff like roller coasters and horror movies and very hard exercise in my personal life because I guess that's what I need to feel something.
That didn't used to be the case before this job.

That's without even starting on ten stupid politics.

I hope my kids want a nice quiet job in a cheap place. I wish I had a greengrocers in Mid Wales or a florists or a dog walking business and I rather hope they want to do something like that. People would have been disappointed in me and said I was wasting my intelligence doing something like that but unless you invented penicillin or a cure for Alzheimer's then I don't see that my Drs job is making the world any better than if I walked someone's dog or sold veg. It doesn't make you a good person or automatically a worthwhile member of society being a Dr (Nick Hornby's How to be Good struck a chord with me)

She'll do it anyway though so good luck to her.

Consultant physician from a non-medical background. Have actively encouraged my kids to look to non medical careers.
At times it is a privilege and very rewarding helping patients recover from various illnesses - medicine in general facilitates natural recovery- or control symptoms when recovery not possible.
Most times I'm battling unrealistic expectations re timescales, outcome, facilities etc with too few staff, poor IT and ridiculous politics (internal and national).

I'm an anaesthetic registrar. I love my job most of the time and think I'm lucky to have an interesting and stimulating job with lots of personal satisfaction.

Also dislike the politics, media nastiness, rubbish IT etc... but (even after doing 2 stints on ITU during covid surges) I feel like positives outweigh the negatives.

I'm first in my extended family to go to uni so not having parents in the profession hasn't held me back. Agree that lots of people tried to discourage me when young, but I'm glad I didn't listen.

I don't have any medical family BTW
It just seemed like a nice job for a clever girl I wanted to help people and I lacked the imagination to see other less direct ways that I could help people.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

No I fucking hate my job right now This has been true at many times over the last 20+ yrs of my career but I am too stuck to change now

You'll never change her mind though
When I was your DDs age people tried to tell me and I thought I knew better (arrogance of youth)

The pay is decent, there's still a good pension and there's great job security.

Vs the hours, the relentless emotional and physical graft of it, the level of abuse often, the fear of making a terrible fatal error and just the never ending nature of it. I mean really we are all going to die so medicine is the ultimate exercise in futility when it comes down to it. I try not to let myself think like that but it's hard to 'Unsee' once you've had that thought. I sometimes wonder why I am bothering.

It has changed me for sure and not necessarily for the good. I was explaining to my PT that I had a black eye because a patient punched me in the face and he was visibly shocked. For a split second I could see it through his eyes that it's not normal to put up with that at work but in medical culture you suck that shit up and you don't complain. Even for me that was quite a bad one but verbal abuse is daily and physical about a monthly event so it barely registered. I took 15 mins out to have a cry and put some ice on it and I went back to work. Mid pandemic, no other Drs who weren't sick or quarantined so no choice. My colleagues also expected that of me. No way would going home because you got punched be a thing you would do unless you needed medical attention yourself.

I have nerves of steel because I tolerate a lot of risk and high emotion on a daily basis. I am a bit numb now. Stuff doesn't shock me that really ought to.
I remember when I first started and I used to cry when patients died or had bad news and now I barely ever do.
I like adrenaline producing stuff like roller coasters and horror movies and very hard exercise in my personal life because I guess that's what I need to feel something.
That didn't used to be the case before this job.

That's without even starting on ten stupid politics.

I hope my kids want a nice quiet job in a cheap place. I wish I had a greengrocers in Mid Wales or a florists or a dog walking business and I rather hope they want to do something like that. People would have been disappointed in me and said I was wasting my intelligence doing something like that but unless you invented penicillin or a cure for Alzheimer's then I don't see that my Drs job is making the world any better than if I walked someone's dog or sold veg. It doesn't make you a good person or automatically a worthwhile member of society being a Dr (Nick Hornby's How to be Good struck a chord with me)

She'll do it anyway though so good luck to her.

all of this ^

Today I got a death threat off a patient because the nhs wouldn't fund their cosmetic surgery (police involved, not just them telling me to fuck off die). It didn't even raise an eyebrow. My emotions are calibrated differently to normal people now.

I'm a GP. Non medical family.

My daughter wants to become a Dr and she will whether I want her too or not.

PS poster above: I got into a prestigious medical school with biology chemistry and English literature at AAA

Whether I want her to or not.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity
What stops you now from packing it in and working in that florists? Wouldn't you be happier?

Yes. I love my job. I am a junior doctor and it can be frustrating and hard - I have had (especially on call) shifts that were scarily understaffed and left me unable to sleep with fear of having missed something due to the unsurmountable work load and the enormous potential consequences of that. BUT I love my patients. I love my colleagues. I feel like what I do is meaningful. I learn new things every day. I meet interesting people every day. I love it.

I think it really depends on your place of work though. I have wonderful supportive supervisors. Work with absolutely excellent nurses and a brilliant MDT. Great consultants. Mostly do feel valued and have not had the same issues others report re: being a name on a spreadsheet, i.e. have always had people be accommodating of my own needs in coordinating the rota (within reason).

I know you asked for a doctors perspective but I thought I would add my tuppence worth as a nurse. I wouldn't encourage my children to go into medicine, I wouldn't want them to do nursing either but I would take that over medicine. The stresses we are all enduring are overwhelming. Poor treatment of medical staff has gone on in quite a few of the specialities I have worked in. Junior doctors are the middle man that get it from all angles, nurses, ward sisters, registrars, consultants..you need an incredibly thick skin in my experience. The higher you climb the ladder, the deeper into hospital politics you delve. I used to believe the consultants and registrars had a slightly easier life than juniors, but it's just not the case anymore. I have seen senior doctors left without a choice but to provide care that their registrations do not cover, it's not safe and it's not patient centred. The whole system is rotten. Personally, I will be out of the NHS when I can. My job is a huge part of who I am but I don't want to practice it or witness it anymore. I used to love my job, I love the patients and the buzz of delivering fantastic care, but it's not often I feel that way anymore.

I’m a doctor and I love my job - I have specialised in psychiatry. I’m not from a medical family and so far none of my kids want to be doctors but I would be happy for them to do it if they wanted to. There are so many different options once you’ve done your degree which means that you haven’t shut down all your options at the age of 18. All the different things you can be from a surgeon to a dermatologist to a psychiatrist to a GP etc etc. So I don’t think there’s one right answer to this question because some specialities are very understandably stressed at the moment (eg GPs, hospital medics) and others less so.

Upsky- The fact I have no artistic ability or knowledge of flowers mainly! In reality I have no idea what else I would do as I never had time to develop anything else like a hobby or anything. I said that because I had a friend who quit medicine for a gardening business years ago and she's very happy with no regrets. Hardly anyone even knows she used to be a Dr. We were both struggling with the horrible hours as juniors in the late 90s and she quit and I carried on. Sliding Doors moment.

But mainly it's the fact that I am the main wage earner for my family and we live in the Southeast with DC in exam years. It's only state school and a modest terraced house but we need my income to survive here.

I fantasise on a pretty regular basis and more and more since the pandemic and various losses in my life about quitting and downsizing to a cheaper nicer part of the country (I have no great attachment to where we are) but realistically I need to get through 5 years until DC leave home.

After that early retirement it is.

I used to work as a doctor for the NHS and now I don't, and I'm much much happier. I still use my degree though, and for that reason I wouldn't tell someone not to do medicine, I would just caution against a whole career in the NHS. It's good to have a plan B.

DD (15) is adamant she wants to be a doctor.

So let her choose her path rather than asking randoms on the Internet to scare her off it.

I love medicine, I love working with patients and with my colleagues.
The NHS is a creaking leaky ship but there is still good work to be done. I am in my 50s and will work until I am 70 due to family commitments so I have made choices and changes to my career to make this possible.

Things to remember

1. there are many many ways to do medicine that are not the conventional junior, junior, junior Consultant forever (or GP) model
2. life is long and it is not a race to get to "the top" quickly...
3. medicine is fulfilling and OK pay if you are the right fit
4. medicine can take you round the world and enrich your life in other ways
5. If you hate it you don't have to stay (I left for a few years by necessity and worked in other jobs so i have a a different perspective) It is still a good qualification and can be used as such.

I’m a doctor and enjoy it.

I’m a GP by trade but haven’t worked in a GP practice for a few years, feel like I jumped ship at the right time. Being a GP is currently a thankless task and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. They’re busier than they’ve ever been but being trashed by the media. All my GP friends are planning to get out because the media/demanding patients. I’m worried about the future of general practice as it’s currently imploding.

I now work in a community hospital, predominantly with elderly day patients and absolutely love it. But I consider myself very very lucky. We don’t have in-patients so there’s no pressure to discharge, and I have time to really sort out patients issues with the help of a multidisciplinary team.

Would I recommend medicine to my kids? No. But I wouldn’t discourage them either, jus caution them to consider carefully their choice of speciality.

@Cyclingforcake

Oh and one last thing and then I’ll go to bed. The whole public sector package is good - decent maternity pay, proper sick pay and despite its problems a good pension scheme.

It's not any more! Have you actually read the t&c's?

Yes all fine for those in the system in last few years of working. But benefits are actually rubbish eg mat pay 8 weeks (Lawyers 12months)

Medicine is great in theory. The problem is the NHS is a monopoly employer so work conditions are crap and no one can do anything about it.

Google the salaries. Its a matter of public record. She will be be "junior doctor " for ar least 12 years so look at these salaries first. Compare them to lawyer / accountant / IT etc

It's only getting worse

Encourage your child to do anything else

@Lightswitch123 not sure which lawyers you think get 12 months maternity leave. Most barristers are self-employed so we get no sick pay , maternity leave or pension.

Some solicitors firms may allow 12 months leave (I don't know any), but frankly if you did that at a Magic Circle/Silver Circle Firm it would probably be career suicide.

[quote Rosemaryandlemon]@Lightswitch123 not sure which lawyers you think get 12 months maternity leave. Most barristers are self-employed so we get no sick pay , maternity leave or pension.

Some solicitors firms may allow 12 months leave (I don't know any), but frankly if you did that at a Magic Circle/Silver Circle Firm it would probably be career suicide.[/quote]
Not the case at all - i have two uni friends who are partners in two different firms. Both taken a full year on full pay within the last w to 3 years. That's over £300k each for being on mat leave , or 5 years + of a doctors annual salary. They are by no means unique in their firms