How to reason with a super defensive person?

[Aria2015]

I'll start by saying that I love my brother and we get on 99% of the time but I just don't know how to get through to him when we disagree because he's so defensive and turns everything around on me and gets me tied up in knots!

My mum does a lot to help him out. Things like helping out with childcare and occasional lifts etc.. she likes doing it so not a problem. Sometimes however I feel like he doesn't speak very nicely to her, he gets frustrated with her easily and talks to her with what I would describe as contempt, despite her just trying to be helpful. Most of the time he's lovely but when he's stressed or late for something he'll be like this and I hate it.

I called him out on it and said 'You're didn't talk to mum nicely earlier' and he instantly turned it around and said 'watch how you're talking to me! Listen to how you're talking to me! Stop shouting'. I wasn't shouting and he does this EVERY SINGLE time I say anything he doesn't like. He will basically accuse me of doing what I've just accused him of doing. He then will rant on trying to justify why he talked that way saying that she was making him more late by being long winded etc... He's now pissed off with me for calling him out.

Does anyone have any techniques for how you communicate with someone who reacts this way to any kind of criticism? He's been this way since he was little, full of justifications as to why he's behaved a certain way and will always flip it around to make the person calling him out the one with the problem (usually accusing them of the exact same thing back).

I consider myself a reasonable person and a good communicator but with him I just get tied up in knots and somehow end up defending myself against what I was calling him out on! There must be a better way for me to frame things so that he'll actually listen to what I'm trying to say but I just don't know what it is!

It's really his only flaw because he's mostly lovely and laid back and he's very generous with my mum financially and shows he helps her by sorting out all her bills, buying her things online (she doesn't know how), doing all her admin etc...

It’s called DARVO - standard abusive technique - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

It’s to dominate, control and to shut someone up….so that they don’t give feedback again in the future.

Is your mother able to speak up for herself? Why do you need to step in?

Does he speak to his colleagues like this when he gives them feedback? Or just the women in his life? Is he with the mother or his DC or has she walked?

If he wants to improve his communication style then I would explain what you observe him doing and the impact it has on you - and outline how you would like him to engage and if he is not capable of agreeing to this - then explain your consequences - actions that you stick with.

Why bother ?

It's almost like he doesn't like being criticised, isn't it. Esp when it's true

OP, there is no way you could deliver that feedback without him combusting. This is because you're telling him to stop doing what he likes doing, and he doesn't want to stop.

My impression is, if he speak to your mum disrespectfully and she is ok with it, it's not your place to tell him off?
If he was this way since he was little, and your parents couldn't change him, I really don't think you can.

@winterisaroundthecorner

My impression is, if he speak to your mum disrespectfully and she is ok with it, it's not your place to tell him off? If he was this way since he was little, and your parents couldn't change him, I really don't think you can.

This. If your mother has an issue with the way he speaks to her, it is for her to deal with it. It's your issue if he's rude etc to you.

I would say ‘I’m not shouting, you are’ stay SO CALM.
Don’t even speak again when they act like this.

I would say things like ‘whenever you are ready we can talk about it again’ and do not be drawn into anything.

Sometimes writing it down helps as it takes the heat out of it. Some people just cannot take any verbal criticism at all and completely overreact.

Good luck.

OP "It's really his only flaw because he's mostly lovely and laid back and he's very generous with my mum financially and shows he helps her by sorting out all her bills, buying her things online (she doesn't know how), doing all her admin etc..."

This is a great way to make someone feel dependent though. I'm wondering what age she is that she can't learn to do this?

My brother speaks to me like this, and I've been NC with him for eighteen months. I was very clear about the effect it was having on me, and he was equally clear that he wasn't going to stop - so here we are.

The problem is, if this behaviour gets him what he wants, he has no reason to stop.

Sorry but I think you are both treating your mum like a child. If your brother needs childcare I’m assuming your mum can’t be that old. But you are sorting out her problems and he’s not teaching her how to do thinks just taking over.
I would leave it to your mum to sort.

Thanks for the replies, it's interesting to hear everyone's perspective. Interesting too to read about DARVO - he definitely does some that and it always makes me feel so frustrated and like I'm stuck in glue.

To answer a few questions, Mum is mid 70's but pretty healthy. She's a bit disorganised when it comes to admin stuff and isn't too hot on doing stuff online which is why my brother helps her out. I'm sure she'd manage without him but I think she's asked for help
with stuff in the past and then he's just kept doing it because it was quicker and easier for her.

He is married and has been for many years. Him and my sil seem to be happy and I've never heard him speak unpleasantly to her but she has mentioned how he's impossible to argue with because he's so defensive and turns things around so I know he does it with her too.

A few people have said that it's for my mum to say if she doesn't like the way he speaks to her. She seems to just accept it tbh so maybe I shouldn't make it my problem? It's just I don't like to see him speaking her that way so felt like I needed to stick up for her.

But, even if it was something else I had an issue with (unrelated to my mum), he still reacts the same to criticism. I'll try the suggestions that @3luckystars made and see if it helps but as a few of you have said already, it's possibly an impossible task to change how he reacts given he's been doing it his whole life.

We don't disagree on things often and despite him being so defensive, it doesn't put me off calling him out on stuff. I suppose I just hope each time that I might get a more reasonable reaction from him but it never happens.

Does he ever change his ways if you give him feedback? Sometimes people are reactive, defensive and aggressive in the moment (not excusable) but in time their behaviour changes - although they would never admit that.

I would always calmly call him out each and every time but not let it escalate to a row. I would calmly walk away, end the call the moment he became uncivil - I would not get drawn into arguing against his projection as this is the distraction - I would once repeat my observation and then tell him that he is obviously triggered and needs time to deescalate and reflect so you will give him that time and space

@DFOD sometimes he'll cool off and then say sorry (not for being defensive, but for whatever it was I'd called him out on). So he can reflect on things and see my point of view sometimes - but only after we've been through the whole dance of him turning it around on me and making out I'm the problem first. We can never have a calm exchange where there is any criticism levied at him.

Sometimes when you KNOW what is happening, it removes the emotion out of it.

When he starts doing this again say ‘oh you are doing that trick again, trying to blame me, I’m not shouting, I am totally calm’

Or just pull a mirror out of your bag and hold it up to him.
‘You are talking about yourself’

It’s amazing how much better you will feel once you know his tricks.
It almost gets funny.

Don’t get drawn in at all.

As my sister says ‘you can’t change him, but you can change your reaction to him’

This is my family. I will never get through to them. They stonewall me to avoid any discussion where the holes in their indignation will be served back to them

[quote Aria2015]@DFOD sometimes he'll cool off and then say sorry (not for being defensive, but for whatever it was I'd called him out on). So he can reflect on things and see my point of view sometimes - but only after we've been through the whole dance of him turning it around on me and making out I'm the problem first. We can never have a calm exchange where there is any criticism levied at him. [/quote]
I think that there is a chunk of light. If you know that he changes the behavior you mention then that’s progress.

It depends whether you can be bothered to weather the storm to achieve your goal down the road. As PP said if you know what he is doing and can choose not to get drawn into his distraction process - just calmly deliver the message and walk away, end the call - he can’t talk to the wall.

At a different / separate time you can decide to give him feedback about how he interacts - that he gets emotionally dysregulated and he might want to work on what triggers him and develop some grounding techniques. Tell him it’s ugly, disrespectful and abusive behaviour that is hurting those around him.

You haven’t mentioned your DF. Is he in the picture - what was his approach to discipline when you were growing up?

Good advice on here op, and good for you calling him out when he does speak contemptuously to your mum, there no need to behave towards her like that and when she becomes frailer this type of behaviour from him could get worse , he needs to be pulled up for it because she isn’t good at technology or is slowing down a bit does not give him the right to disrespect her.