Bridget Jones - watched it last night, erm it’s aged a bit!

[Noeuf]

Gosh watched with dd as I was up late and it came on. Funny how I remembered it and how we’ve moved on now.
The emails about her skirt - funny/flirty then and now massively inappropriate
Darcy ‘negging’ her - dd couldn’t see why he was meant to be the one we all wanted
Fighting in the street! And no comeback for him as a human rights barrister
91/2 stone - and she was fat??!!! I weigh more than that and don’t think I’m comment worthy!
Just so interesting to see how my views have changed really.

I loved the books and films. It's definitely of its time. I don't think we should be critiquing media from years ago through a modern lens, very little stands up to the current levels of scrutiny- same with SATC, Friends, etc.

‘Well, you are if you think Darcy's aloofness is 'negging'. Do you think Mr Darcy in P&P is also negging?‘

I’ve never understood the love for either Darcy’s behaviour.

@Noeuf

Oh I love Bridget - grew up with the newspaper diary, read the books I’m not dissing Brdge! Just surprised last night at how socially acceptable loads of stuff was like fighting in the street, trashing a restaurant etc and that just wouldn’t be seen as attractive now - Darcy is just rude and weird, and not in a brooding, manly way

I haven't read the whole thread but in my opinion the fighting in the street was never socially acceptable....it is fiction....it was an equivalent of them having a 'duel' over her and a most distasteful scene in my view. I equally do not think the e-mails from Daniel Cleaver (Hugh Grant) would have been appropriate either and that is the point he is a leacherous creep but because she fancies him, she responds positively. Thousands wouldn't have done. The most dated thing to me was the smoking of cigarettes.

@Noeuf

He does do what we called negging now - at the dinner party he says all that liking her stuff despite xyz. We watched it thinking who the hell does he think he is criticising her. And my point is now the fighting etc - no one is horrified, calling the police, no comeback on the well known Darcy etc. Plus I don’t think the Darcy thing being linked to P&P is some great intellectual in joke you have to know about…

Darcy doesn't neg her deliberately though. He is a very serious character with a very serious job who is unfamiliar with the art of charm (ie the opposite of Daniel Cleaver) and he was awkwardly trying to verbalise why he likes Bridget, even though she has some qualities that he doesn't really get. We see (or are mean to see) that Darcy is genuinely awkward rather than spiteful. He finally concludes that he likes her just as she is, ie he accepts her completely. It comes across that he is as surprised as her by how he feels and what he's said.

@rookiemere

Regarding her weight, the book makes it clear that she's a perfectly normal weight - not fat at all, but not stick thin.

I remember being disappointed that Renee Zellwegger put on so much weight for the film, to the point where it seemed a bit unbelievable that both men were so keen to be with her.

The whole point of it was that she wasn't fat, but thought she was.

This, exactly! The whole point in the book is that Bridget was obsessed with her weight even though she was an average, healthy BMI weight. By making Renee Z put on weight for the film they lost/ruined the whole point of that!

@Taoneusa

I wonder what is today’s equivalent feel - good chick flick comedy. Because even if you don’t like BJD nowadays, it was a feel good comfort film for a long time.

Do we have a current day equivalent ?

Bridesmaids is already a bit old now, but the closes thing I can think of. Still quite stereotypical in that there's a group of women, the posh one, the 'loser' one, the fat one, etc. Hilarious food poisoning clip. Main character is involved with a Cleaver type, desperate enough to be his FB no.3, then finds love with policeman.

I suppose the very concept of a romantic comedy is anathema to some people who don't like to see women portrayed as looking for a man at all.

I can’t think of today’s equivalent - maybe for those of us who grew up with Bridget it’s things like Motherland or Outnumbered? Not sure, but I related to those in the way I related to BJ at the time?
Off out now, fun to chat it over, interesting how polarising it is

"By making Renee Z put on weight for the film they lost/ruined the whole point of that!"

She put on a bit too much, but Bridget was not movie star size either so she would have had to put some on to make it realistic.

"Darcy doesn't neg her deliberately though. He is a very serious character with a very serious job who is unfamiliar with the art of charm (ie the opposite of Daniel Cleaver) and he was awkwardly trying to verbalise why he likes Bridget, even though she has some qualities that he doesn't really get. We see (or are mean to see) that Darcy is genuinely awkward rather than spiteful. He finally concludes that he likes her just as she is, ie he accepts her completely. It comes across that he is as surprised as her by how he feels and what he's said."

Exactly the same plot as in P&P. Wickham is charming, but a bounder, Darcy not as charming, but a genuinely good man.

@BigSandyBalls2015

My DDs were stunned by the fact that she’s considered to be a loser despite her fab job and amazing Central London flat!

It is Hollywood version of a loser. Just like Roseanne is a Hollywood version of poverty.

Loved the columns in the paper when it first came out years ago, but have always hated the films.

So twee and completely missed the point

I’ve just watched an old film and been surprised at how much we’ve moved on.

Don’t watch Seven Brides for Seven Brothers then, your head will explode.

@Noeuf

I remember all the press about RZ putting on weight to at the part etc.

Yeah, I remember that. It was pretty bad really because RZ was insulting (without meaning to be) explaining how she had basically eaten herself up to a huge nine and a half stone stuffing herself with doughnuts etc! The irony was RZ looked a 100% better at a health weight!

@WheelieBinPrincess

No the point is she THOUGHT she was fat but the viewer/reader is meant to know that she isn’t! That’s her hang up, we all think we are too fat at one stage or another don’t we?!

Aah, that makes sense.

I was the right age for this film, weighed about what BJ did and thought I was fat. I think generally for young women nine and a half stone was seen as on the fat side.

@julieca

I was the right age for this film, weighed about what BJ did and thought I was fat. I think generally for young women nine and a half stone was seen as on the fat side.

As a teenager I varied between 8 and 8 1/2. I worked hard to always try to get back to the 8st. It's not that I thought I was fat at the 'higher' weight, I just wanted to be slimmer. (I'm short too).

Obviously, I'm much bigger than both weights now in middle age, but that's irrelevant as I'm not comparing myself to 90s teenagers!

I have also worn shapewear - a poster above used that as evidence that someone is fat, it's not at all!

I’ve got shape wear for wearing under certain things to give a smooth silhouette. I’m 9st bmi 22 aged 50. I’m of the Trinny and Susannah era . They must’ve sold a hell of a lot of Spanx!

@Benjispruce4

I’ve got shape wear for wearing under certain things to give a smooth silhouette. I’m 9st bmi 22 aged 50. I’m of the Trinny and Susannah era . They must’ve sold a hell of a lot of Spanx!

Yes, but I've also got a few pairs of black tights that do the job well enough.

It was a film about the times it was set in…and it rang true with people then.

People saw things they recognised and it was presented in a way which made people laugh. Like Jane Austen’s works Bridget Jones is an ironic piece - and as readers we are supposed to spot the mocking of characters for their behaviours, rather than to think they are showing positive attributes….but it’s also about recognising the frailty if human nature.

And yes, culturally it’s dated. However, the big concerns of being single and lonely and being childless are HUGE issues women of this generation still feel and no doubt always will. I think they are universal themes, which is one of the reasons why Bridget was relatable, because she brought those issues into a modern context.

Okay, perhaps people aren’t so worried about being married today…actually for Bridget it was more about being with a man than being married, but most people at some point still want to be in a couple. And the issue of having children and biological clock is very much still an issue for women in their 30s and 40s.

Yes, lots of things have moved on. Office perving isn’t acceptable, and we don’t laugh about it now…but it’s still going on. We might say we’re not concerned about weight, but vast numbers still weigh themselves frequently and obsess about how they look.

To me, culturally it reflects it’s time, but many of the themes are still very much issues today. Perhaps it won’t play well and appeal strongly to teenage girls today (although ive known some to love it) but current versions telling the same tale with today’s culture will be there….which will also date room but still tell a truth universally acknowledged …that most humans would like to be in a relationship. It’s as simple a story as that.

Very good post Wombat.

Plus I don’t think the Darcy thing being linked to P&P is some great intellectual in joke you have to know about…

The book was a reworking of P&P. Obvs Darcy was Darcy and Cleaver was Wickham, but P&P was a fairly sharp look at the Regency marriage market. Brigit Jones was doing the same thing for the 20th century. However, I don't think necessarily came across well in the film.

As for it not translating well into 2021, well I can't get exercised about a silly fight (as a PP said, it's meant to be slapstick as they're pretty awful at it), nor about Darcy "negging" (I've seen the film several times and never thought of it as that). Maybe we're just too quick to criticise films rather than enjoy them for what they are?

An excellent post, @WombatChocolate I remember reading the original columns in the Independent and later in the Telegraph and thinking they were brilliant, not least because it was one of the first time I'd seen writing about how (some) women actually thought, rather than what other people thought they thought, or what they should think.

It was very much of its time and some of the references (like Brigit being obsessed with her weight, against a backdrop of androgynous heroin chic) have perhaps lost their context if you weren't around then.

@Noeuf

‘Well, you are if you think Darcy's aloofness is 'negging'. Do you think Mr Darcy in P&P is also negging?‘

I’ve never understood the love for either Darcy’s behaviour.

I reread P&P a while ago and Darcy definitely has some choice quotes about women. He tells Caroline that women's minds always jump to marriage in an instance and that it's a good thing that women aren't involved in business. There was a bunch of other stuff I forgot. And I thought, we're supposed to root for this character right?

Although, after Elizabeth kicks his ass and tells him she's the last man she'd ever consider marrying and tells him she things he's a jerk, he never says the sexist stuff out loud anymore.

Yes it has aged a bit. But working culture was definitely like that - had an office job in London 20 years ago and the acceptables comments/behaviour then would get you immediately sacked now (at least one would hope!). Back then HR told me I had a sense of humour failure!

Darcy is just rude and weird, and not in a brooding, manly way

Just like his P&P namesake. I have always thought that he would be a condescending PITA as a husband and Jane would have been much happier with nice but dim Bingley than Elizabeth with Darcy.