Friend's DD is worth half a dozen cows [sad]

[HowManyCows]

Just to be clear from the start – this is NOT in the UK!

I’m feeling so sad for my lovely friend and her DD. They live in a city where I grew up which is very Westernised. Her DD was privately educated and has a master’s degree and has led a fairly privileged life, despite mixing very closely with all types of people in society during her upbringing. She has a boyfriend who lives in an extremely poor area of the city (think no running water and a single shared bathroom for several houses in the street) and moved in with him, and is now pregnant. The DD and her BF are from completely different upbringings and environments, and most importantly, cultures. Now that she is pregnant, his culture requires them to get married; the initial negotiations for her dowry have been kicked off with my friend’s DH (who is obviously also well-educated and not in any way part of this culture).

There is literally no way of them getting out of this situation (well – not without the DD deciding not to be part of this, which she refuses to do as she wants this new poverty-stricken life in order to ‘rebel’). Telling her BF and all of his male relatives who are involved in the negotiations that getting a few head of cattle for their daughter isn’t what they are willing to talk about would be seen as both deeply offensive and racist, and could potentially lead to unwanted repercussions.

The DD isn’t/can’t be part of the wedding discussions or any other discussions – she is essentially a commodity to be purchased (although in fairness, the BF clearly loves her a lot). The baby will be brought up living in a filthy slum (the DD is happy for that to happen as she wants the child to be part of the ‘real way some people live’). And I’m so sad that this lovely girl is now valued by heads of cattle and is to become a man’s property. My friend and her DH are gutted that it's come to this. This world is so screwed up

I hope that her parents are able to make it clear that their DD is always welcome with them so when/if reality hits she has somewhere to go.

Which culture is this? Where the DD has moved in with her b/f before marriage but she is being negotiated over as a commodity? Not like any culture I'm aware of

Once the baby arrives hopefully she will have a reality check.

Yes, she knows she can move back any time. I can't imagine bringing up a baby without running water, I honestly can't get my head around why she'd want to . She's mid-twenties!

@Superstarry

Which culture is this? Where the DD has moved in with her b/f before marriage but she is being negotiated over as a commodity? Not like any culture I'm aware of

Unfortunately there are lots of cultures where this happens - the dowry normally reflects what is classed as 'damages' if the women is already pregnant!

Yes I have no trouble believing this because what you're describing is a culture partly westernised and progressive and partly still in the past and how all of that is messily lived out and negotiated.

It IS sad but the saving grace looks like she genuinely loves this man and he loves her. Let's hope they haul themselves to a better place and make a life they're happy with. I understand how you feel, but they are choosing this aren't they? I hope it all goes well for them. I can see why your friend would be gutted.

So their daughter wants to play at being poor?

Honestly if I were her parents I would let her. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way. She sounds like she has a romantic view of poverty and once the realities of what that life looks like for her actually hit, then I’m sure she will sign a different tune.

I would give the cattle and leave her to it. I would say my door is always open to her and to have fun.

Sometimes parents have to step back and let their adult children learn hard lessons. And this is one of them. She is determined to make her life harder than it has to be, so just let her “enjoy” that hardship then.

When she gets older and perhaps sees her own child, she might get a clue and realise that her Disney cartoon romantic ideas about poverty and living a “real life” is ridiculous and honestly, distasteful. The ultimate sign of privilege is being able to play pretend at being poor. She’s living her life in a fantasy way. She sounds way too immature to even be thinking of having a child.. but too late for this I guess.

Whenever someone makes light of this and goes to play some make believe “I’m so bohemian, living a poor life, I want to see how it is to struggle” life is the ultimate sign of privilege.

Her daughter of course can decide to walk out of this life and go back to her parents, but many can’t. It’s not a game.

But let her learn the hard way. The best thing her parents can do is give the cattle and wish her well. I think she will realise her mistake before her baby is a year old.

So are the BFs family trying to give your westernised city living friends the cattle?

Her daughter of course can decide to walk out of this life and go back to her parents, but many can’t. It’s not a game.*

Absolutely its literally the point of the song 'common people' 🎶still you'll never get it right
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night
Watching roaches climb the wall
If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah🎶

She may be able to leave but can she take her child with her?

I don't understand why your friend and her DH are going along with this, if they are gutted about it.

Why can't they say no?

@heldinadream Yes, that's exactly it - numerous cultures have mixed together with western ones and it hasn't really worked.

@MarshmallowSwede You're right, she's wanting to play at being poor and pretending to be the same as the people she's living amongst when she's not. I'd be so upset if it was my own DD - she's willingly depriving her child of getting decent quality medical treatment etc by dong this!

@FluffyBooBoo

I don't understand why your friend and her DH are going along with this, if they are gutted about it.

Why can't they say no?

Because the dd is an adult and says she wants it. If she wants to get married, her parents can't just recuse themselves from the dowry negotiations without causing massive offence and breaking down the relationship between their two families.

Luckily, it sounds like they would be able to repay the dowry if/when the dd decides to get out.

I’ve worked in places like this in Africa; DH once deeply shocked a nurse colleague when he admitted he hadn’t paid anything for me (we’re both Drs)!
As awful as it is to our western sensibilities, your friend could make a big difference to their daughter’s status in her new community:
If it’s a dowry (bride’s parents paying, money goes with bride) then they have an opportunity to give some money/goods that will help set the new family up as well as possible.
If it’s bride price (grooms family pay the bride’s family, as she is leaving their family to join the groom’s), then negotiating a high price will give her kudos amongst the people that she will now be living amongst. Her new in laws will be proud of having paid well, and may value her more.
It’s not something that anyone with western sensibilities would want for their child, but if mine were to marry into such a culture, I’d damn we’ll do what I could to give them as high a standing as possible.

@HorsesHoundsandHills - You clearly know what you're talking about. Yes, it's a bride price (I put dowry as I assumed people wouldn't know what a bride price is). The negotiation meetings are already underway, I don't know what the final outcome will be. I know the BF has little money, but these things involve much wider family so perhaps they have more money to throw at it...

It would be interesting to see whether she wants to give birth like the locals or whether she takes the cleaner, safer expensive option.
I hope for her and the baby it’s the latter

@Hoppinggreen

It would be interesting to see whether she wants to give birth like the locals or whether she takes the cleaner, safer expensive option. I hope for her and the baby it’s the latter

So in other words using her privilege. People living in poverty don't get that choice sadly. And yes for the sake of the baby I hope it's the latter too.

So she's not worth a few cows then, she's worth negative a few cows ☹☹ not surprised her parents are gutted

Really? What culture and where is this?

Best of luck to them OP, I hope they negotiate hard. As distasteful as it may be to them, in the eyes of her new in laws these negotiations signify the respect and love that they have for their daughter.

If they want to send some money with her, then my understanding is that expensive jewellery for her wedding day would be a way to do this without causing offence.

Can they set the price so high that they can't afford to buy her? Oh sorry DD you will have to stay home instead.

They could, but if she loves him and is pregnant, she may not thank them for it.

Or, worse still, she may decide to stay and marry ‘for free’, which would lose her a lot of status, and embarrass her new in laws. Better to accept the cows!