Year 6 issues - worth moving schools at this stage?

[Year6dramallama]

Hello, long time poster but name changed for this. Sorry this is long.

My son is in Yr 6 and has been struggling on and off at his school for a long time, largely down to friendship issues and his own struggles with regulating his emotions. Over the years we've tried various approaches with the school, and it's been a bit hit and miss but when we seriously looked at moving him to another school he decided he didn't want to. He has counselling through the school and we have also had family counselling as well which helped us enormously in being able to support him and has made huge changes to his behaviour at home - he's like a different child. In summer term yr 5 things finally seemed to 'click' at school as well - me and his teacher were working together on boundary setting and he was settled, happy to go to school, managing his emotions really well and his anxiety was at an all time low. The same through the summer hols.

Back to yr 6, new teacher, and he's properly slipping backwards. At home he's fine, but he has been getting very very anxious about school and friends again. I asked to speak to his teacher so we chatted on Friday. Turns out he's been disruptive at school, has had a few meltdowns including one where he self harmed (he came home with scratches on his face and told us he'd fallen). Teacher seemed quite unaware of the work we'd done with the previous teacher and the strategies she'd put in place. Yr 6 teacher was very much of the opinion that 'he just needs to be reminded how to behave in class'. I talked about the counselling etc and work we'd done in yr 5, and she said, well this is year 6.

Last year he was so anxious and stressed about school he was threatening to kill himself, and we had a referral to CAMHS (he didn't meet the threshold though as not actually taking action to hurt himself hence we got private counselling). We worked so hard all year to get him to a place where things were settled, and now I can see he is slipping backwards. I'm so angry that the school doesn't seem to have done anything to ensure that there is continuity from year 5 to 6 in terms of approach. the behaviours and coping mechanisms he had started to use barely had a chance to bed in, and now it's all disrupted again. I'm so disappointed that no care seems to have been taken to manage the transition to year 6 better and wondering whether we just need to bite the bullet and move him to a new school early in yr 6. The school safeguarding lead was fully aware of the work we did last year and all the issues. I just don't know what to do for the best. To be told that your son has self harmed in school (and only told as part of a chat I had requested) is so awful especially when he had made such huge improvements and seemed to be getting happier and more confident in his friendships.

Sorry, I don't know what I'm asking for really. Just wanted to vent I suppose. I feel like I've failed him through trying to work with the school over the last ouple of years, instead of just moving him.

Can you request a meeting with the SENCO/safeguard lead (whichever is appropriate - has he had any input from SENCO because in our primary school this would probably fall into their remit too just to rule out underlying issues) and the Yr 5 and new Yr 6 teacher?

No, no input from SENCO ever. Safeguarding lead actually emailed me the day before I spoke to the teacher, saying it seemed like he was settling in really well and did I want to catch up with his counsellor. I will request a meeting with her next week. It would be good to meet with the yr 5 and 6 teachers together too, that's a good shout

What sort of ‘boundary setting’ was working with him in Yr5? It does sound dismissive that the new teacher has said ‘Well, tough’ effectively - but then again it is Yr6, and in Yr6 there is a big expectation shift. So I wonder if she felt your suggestions were likely to hold him back rather than progress him? It’s very hard to say in isolation without understanding what the issues are that cause him anxiety that becomes disruptive.

DD asked to move end of year 5 and was so much happier in the new school - easily made friends etc and I wish we’d done it sooner. Different scenario but similar.

Year 6 is always difficult - kids change but I found there were so many Alpha male types that the other boys wanted to impress and be friends with - and were then quickly dropped or picked up again depending into heir value - it’s awful to watch… however these types generally do worse in secondary school as the kids can vote with their feet!
Example Alpha male learns x is having a party and sides in,, let’s party kid play football, allows party kid to sit with them at lunch, until the party is over and kid is dropped - over and over again!

Parents think kid is my popular when really they’re a bully!

What issues does he have with friends?

@Year6dramallama

No, no input from SENCO ever. Safeguarding lead actually emailed me the day before I spoke to the teacher, saying it seemed like he was settling in really well and did I want to catch up with his counsellor. I will request a meeting with her next week. It would be good to meet with the yr 5 and 6 teachers together too, that's a good shout

Hmm. Sounds like either a) a big communication issue in the school generally or b) that actually he has been settling in well or at least masking his anxiety until this incident.

It doesn't sound like a very good school OP. However, a new school now would be really difficult. I would have lots of meetings asap but if he school refuses then let him stay off (in fact, maybe don't sends him in until you've had some meetings). It's unacceptable and I'm usually get positive about teachers, but you don't sound very assertive either. It's amazing how quickly schools start dealing with things when their attendance is affected so do allow him to refuse school if he needs some recovery time.

His class is almost all girls - there are around 4/5 boys including him. Most of the issues are with girls and he really struggles with being teased and the generally more nuanced communication e.g. conditions on friendships (I'll be your friend if you give me your pokemon cards etc). He's not mature for his age, but he is sporty and academic so he holds his own there and falls apart when it comes to social interaction. He's also the youngest in the year. Its quite embedded as well as these issues have been ongoing for a few years. When he gets anxious he gets fidgety and silly, which is irritating to others and gets him in trouble. Then he gets teased by other kids because he's being annoying, and told off. Then he gets more anxious, and so more fidgety and silly, and it's a vicious circle. In year 4 it was very much a 'tough love approach' and it just didn't help. He isn't behaving like this because he wants to, it's almost an instinctive reaction. With his year 5 teacher we worked on having really clear, really consistent boundaries and consequences e.g. if you get up from your seat then you won't be able to do the activity etc, with 100%follow through, and we do exactly the same at home. Plus her properly backing him up when other kids were unkind (which was happening a lot, as he had by that point become the annoying kid everyone laughs at - previously his teachers had been a bit like, well you started it by being silly). And him being encouraged to tell an adult at school when he felt overwhelmed and allowed to go somewhere quiet- and being praised for doing that. So he felt like he knew where he stood, and he trusted her. And he knew that she would tell me if she had issues or concerns. It was so simple and it turned things around.

I completely get that Yr 6 is a shift. The problem is, he can't just grow up. He needs to walk before he can run if you see what I mean. The skills with managing how he deals with stress are still so new for him that he needs to properly get it before he can make that shift. I really think he has a better chance of transitioning well to yr 7 if he masters this now.

@MerryMarigold yes I agree, I have really not been assertive enough. I made a real stink last year and that was how we ended up with his teacher really pulling through for him. I suppose I just expected that they would handover properly. There's only 19 kids in the class!

And I know that we should have tackled it earlier - I feel terrible, our approach was quite 'tough love - you have to learn' and he was masking his anxiety at home as well, but it all got too much for him by year 4. We have changed so much about our parenting and part of that was really backing him up at school last year, which helped. So I am not going to let this lie.

You could have described my son! Spent last couple of years at juniors being increasingly known as the 'silly' immature one, compared to increasingly more sophisticated peers who could read a room unlike him at that age. Dropped by friends he'd had for years... Drawing attention to silly or disruptive behaviour just made him worse. He is also a summer baby. It changed in secondary. The secondary school thought he might have ADHD and helped us into CAMHS for assessment although he ended up with a diagnosis of autism. He's much more settled knowing there's a reason for his differences and gets support from school rather than relentless arse kicking. He has also just grown up a bit and shrugs his shoulders if there's any agro, whereas when he was 11 he would have been devastated and flipped out. He's 14 now. He can't always read a room but he's learning some ways to cope. Have you looked into this or was CAMHS solely looking into his anxiety?

I don’t have any direct experience, but from what you’ve said it sounds like a fresh start without the label of ‘that annoying kid’ could be really positive for him, and the chance to do that in a smaller primary setting now, rather than waiting to do it at secondary within a much bigger cohort.

As a start it may be useful to get the lie of the land in terms of whether there are schools locally with spaces available.

CAMHS was all about his anxiety and suicide threats. But he didn't meet the threshold so we were referred back to GP, who had nothing else to offer. He can manage friendships 1-1 pretty well. But groups - really struggles. And yeah, he can't read a room at all. Interesting that secondary has helped your son. I will ask about the ADHD/autism thing, it is something I have wondered. When he knows what the rules are and he knows they are consistently applied he is fine. But lack of boundaries or consistency scares the crap out of him and he reacts by getting silly.

Hi OP - this sound very like my DS ( who is about to get a diagnosis of ADHD) but we are a year behind you. Almost the exact same scenario - had an amazing teacher in year 3 and 4 and was so much more settled in school. It’s all fallen apart at the start of year 5 with his new teacher and his anxiety is very bad, back to school refusing etc etc. I’m also considering whether to move schools but can’t decide if the upheaval would be worse.

I think you ask for a meeting with the SENCO ASAP. Before you go in note down everything that you are concerned about. Tbh I’m surprised with his level of anxiety and disruptive behaviour SEN hasn’t at least been consulted.

And just to say you are so right not to let this lie! It’s taken me way too long to get to that point ( for ages I believed the school until independent people observed him). It is really not OK for schools to destroy children’s self confidence/cause such anxiety like this ( which isn’t the same as saying schools shouldn’t manage behaviour)

Will he not be moving schools at the end of this year anyway OP? I honestly don't think I'd move a DC for what - 9 months? That would mean him having to settle into two new schools within the space of a year - not ideal for a DC already suffering from anxiety and social issues.

At this point, I think you have to work with the school he's at. Demand a meeting with his Y6 teacher, the Y5 teacher and the SENCo. Don't take no for an answer. Make it clear that you expect the progress made last year to be built on, not simply ignored now he's moved into Y6. I don't think it's that unusual that the kind of 'handover' that parents might expect from one year to the next simply doesn't happen in many schools, but if your DS is self-harming they simply have to take action. I would also request formal screening for ASD/ADHD.

Thanks all. I've requested a meeting with the inclusion lead ASAP and will be thinking about whether to send him to school tomorrow or not. And will make enquiries about places at other schools just in case.

But agree changing schools now might be worse.

The only way moving may be ok is if he moved to a school which is a feeder for secondary. At my DC primary nearly all of them went to one school so in that way, he won't start from scratch.

I would consider it. You have little to lose but much to gain. Some schools are just better than others at supporting children with ASD than others. There is always movement in my son's year 6 class and the children seem none the worse for it. You know what is best for your child. Nine months might make the world of difference. Take a look at other schools, talk to your son and go from there.

In our area of London there are very few feeder schools, and kids tend to scatter at secondary. Also, too late - applications need to be in by 31st Oct. Kicking myself about lots of things right now!

I'm going to meet with the inclusion lead and ask for a proper handover and agreed action plan, if that meets resistance then I will look to move him to our other local school.

I'd had my suspicions for a while over the years but got nowhere - GP said it was up to school to initiate, school said GP.... But yes decent secondary with exemplary SENCO picked it right up and got the ball rolling. It was literally out of my hands and thank crap for that. You son might just be coming at things from a different angle and if it is autism or another neurodiverse thing you can't beat/nag/train them out of it. Nice teachers and a calm group will go so far but it's not tackling their inherent uncomfiness at dealing with the world the way it is if that makes sense. And the occasional nice teacher/calm class groups are certainly not something you can bank or rely on or even buy to be honest :/

And give yourself a break - you sound like a fab mum - you have done so much to get him support and to help him deal with things - that takes so much energy. He is very loved. You're not out of the woods perhaps just yet but you're getting there by just keeping at it x

I would take seriously the idea of moving schools. It's mainly social issues at root so a change of the kids around him may help (as pp said, new kids with no preconceptions of him).

They will all scatter in Y7 anyway so what's the problem. He gets some practice at the having new classmates thing, before Y7.

I don't think Y6 is all that in terms of seriousness. It's not secondary school. Even sats (if they are still a thing?) are only to set your GCSE target grades.

It doesn't sound very good op. Don't blame yourself - they are the professionals and they should support your son.

Next step is a meeting with the head now as time is short. Raise it as "concerns" which in some schools code for not a formal complaint but a step away from one. Ignore senco and inclusion. Decide what happens as a result of that meeting. Personally I would try to not move him now but would depend on how head reacts to what you say. Do not say you have done thing wrong!

You sound like you are doing very well.

I wouldn't hesitate to move him if they are not supportive though. Try and do it before half term so start after half term.

A lot of reminders of my DS who has ADHD .

The lack of maturity is a adhd think, lack of emotional regulation. One teacher explained about my DS that every emotion he feels isn't wrong it is just the extreme he feels and responds.

He would mess about be disruptive rahter than admit how tough he was finding it..

Big difference his year 6 teacher worked with him... He had bad days. My Son would seriously fall out with the teacher and refuse to do anything at all. His teacher acted like the adult in the situation was able to get my DS move on but made him do the work he had refused.

My DS wrote him a letter at the end of the year about how much he had helped him, teacher said it made him shed a tear.. Reason i say all this the approach matters.

Read up on adhd it sounds like a lot does fit.