What are GPs actually doing right how?

[Darkchocolateandcoffee]

I've just been talking to my 84 yr old mum who can't get a GP appt for love nor money and is worried what she does next as she has a serious condition that she needs to talk to the doc about.

I love 100 miles away from her but I haven't been able to get a doc appointment for my children for months either.

One had such severe hayfever all through the summer and the only appt I could get was with my GP surgery's pharmacist over the phone, who sounded very unengaged and said the only remedies were OTC ones despite me saying we had tried all of them.

I eventually gave up and did a one-off private GP appt and got him prescription meds which worked straightaway. But I wasted weeks beforehand in which he was suffering trying to get the same thing via our usual GP.

Everyone I talk to says the same. The rest of the NHS seems to be firing on all cylinders.

What on EARTH are the GPs doing instead?

My GPs surgery is short- staffed. We are allocated telephone appointments. What does not help is twice( when Ive had to go in for tests), there seem to be people on the phone demanding allsorts from the receptionists. The GP decides if they need to see you face to face, not the receptionist. From what I have observed, our GPs surgery is busier than ever. I have felt my appointments are rushed but not their fault. Apparently, anxiety, depression and other mental health issues have all quadrupled. My surgery certainly isn't sat on it's hands. My personal opinion, too many people who did not go to GPs during Lockdowns etc but who now find they do need to see a doctor, not blaming anyone but it's a possible reason for the increase in patients. Im worried about pharmacies. I now wait a longer time to obtain repeat prescriptions because they don't have the staff to make these up ( or up quick enough). Im also finding medications getting changed. One item Ive been on for years is now getting changed, why, I don't know. I end up ill when they start mucking about with my meds, changing brands etc. I note the clapping on the doorstep and the sentiments behind it didn't last..... One other thing when people get things for nothing, it's not appreciated. Over the years I have noticed a great sense of entitlement too in society in general.

[quote Redredwiney]@TaRaLa No, I’m saying I have a rash I’m worried about on my 6 month old, and I would like to see a GP to talk about it, after I’ve spoken to a health visitor and pharmacist, but instead I’m given a phone appointment in 3 weeks time. Not sure how a GP can inspect the rash over the phone…[/quote]
Did you not say, you’ll need to see it can I send a photo?
That’s what I do, send a photo, get a call. Have the consultation and everything’s resolved without unnecessarily exposing anyone to any viruses, taking up additional time and resources when it’s not necessary

Yes but if everyone was face to face crammed into a tiny waiting room like the good old days there would be a similar number of people catching COVID from GP surgeries as there are from schools at the moment which would create more work for hospitals who needs to get through a backlog of surgeries and referrals.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but am amazed at how many don’t understand this

Mine's just about to stick her hand up my foof to check the coil she fitted 6 weeks ago is still there.

Coil fitment was only a month or so after being requested.

So, not too bad here in Cheshire if only both of this could be done remotely

[quote TataMamma]@BoredZelda
Accept there are problems with underfunding and other matters, but: it is a fact that before Covid people could mostly get face to face appointments and now it is impossible because GPs prefer not to. That is the point, even if there are long term issues at stake, Covid has been a cop-out where they now don't see patients at all, ever.[/quote]
Again, you’re totally wrong. Where do you get your information or are you just making it up as you go along?

What on EARTH are the GPs doing instead?

At least some seem to be waiting until the issue forces "paid appointments", at which point I fully expect them to find themselves available again

Despite the cries of GP shortages, government faults and all the rest, I've yet to see anyone explain why NHS GPs suddenly - magically even - become open to consultations on the offer of money from their patients

Also, if there is no social distancing and we just let transmission run wild at GP surgeries then many vulnerable people will become to scared to go in and get their lumps and bumps checked out like early on in the pandemic. Gp surgeries need to be suitable places for cancer patients and people with low immune systems to have access to.

Reading this I have literally just had a call from my surgery checking up on me and my treatment. They are fantastic. Yes they have changed how they organise appointments with more phone appointments first but that’s fine by me , in fact it’s often easier.
Gps are not exactly sitting around twiddling their thumbs

@JaniieJones

'he needed to see his GP recently for a change to his heart rhythm. Couldn't get through for days, couldn't use the online booking system because it wasn't working, receptionist told him someone would ring him some time during the day to ask him about his symptoms and then would decide whether to refer that on to a GP who would then make a decision whether to ring DH for a phone appointment only. It took all week to get that far.'

Who waits a week after very cleverly noting a 'change in their heart rhythm' . In a case like this next time ring 111 or the old mn fave go to A&E.

And maybe move to his wife's amazing surgery .

@ineedsun Of course I did. I completed the econsult. I stressed I need a face to face so it can be checked in person. I explained I’ve already completed all the steps beforehand before asking to see a GP, yet they gave me a phone appointment in 3 weeks. I was told he will be triaged on that phone appointment and then given a face to face if we need one.

I explained I had done the econsult which was also triaged but apparently that’s an online triage. We then need a phone triage before a face to face.

@ineedsun
Nope, not totally wrong. Before Covid, I got a walk in appt on the day whenever I wanted one. Since Covid not had a single in person appt despite both me and DD clearly needing to be SEEN by a Dr. If your experiences are different, lucky you, but lots of people are clearly in my boat.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

What on EARTH are the GPs doing instead?

At least some seem to be waiting until the issue forces "paid appointments", at which point I fully expect them to find themselves available again

Despite the cries of GP shortages, government faults and all the rest, I've yet to see anyone explain why NHS GPs suddenly - magically even - become open to consultations on the offer of money from their patients

Are you saying NHS GPs are taking back handers? There are whole networks of private GPs (although lots of those advertised are virtual only) but I haven’t heard of NHS GPs taking payment for appointments.

I haven't tried to see my GP since before the pandemic, I'm under joint care between my surgery and my rheumatologist. I've had phone consultations and the odd face to face consultation with rheumatology throughout the pandemic – my GP seems happy to take a back seat.
I have to have a blood test every 3 months due to the medication I'm on. Pre covid, I made an appointment with the nurse at my local GP surgery, walked down there and got my blood test. All simple.
As soon as covid hit, they said they were no longer doing this, so I have to drive to the hospital and get it done at the phlebotomy dept. (who were livid about all the extra people being sent to them from GPs - one of them told me that the GPs had effectively downed tools as soon as the pandemic hit and were sending everyone down to the hospital).
It still hasn't gone back to normal. I'm immunosuppressed. I’m much more comfortable going to my GP where there was about 4 people in the waiting area than going to the hospital that’s thronging with people all the time.
They've just made it so much more difficult for no real reason.

[quote Redredwiney]@ineedsun Of course I did. I completed the econsult. I stressed I need a face to face so it can be checked in person. I explained I’ve already completed all the steps beforehand before asking to see a GP, yet they gave me a phone appointment in 3 weeks. I was told he will be triaged on that phone appointment and then given a face to face if we need one.

I explained I had done the econsult which was also triaged but apparently that’s an online triage. We then need a phone triage before a face to face.[/quote]
So you’ve been triaged and a phone appointment is indicated?

Why do you think that you particularly need a face to face appointment if they’ve already triaged you?

and on £100K a year simply do not have time to browse forums even on their days off.

If some people earning that much can’t put their job down, that’s their problem.

My GP is abysmal. Can't get an appointment for newborn, can't get one for 85yo mum, ante-natal care for my DD was atrocious as has been the aftercare. I need important follow up bloods and have been told 'we're not out of tubes but we might be soon so we're rationing them..' If my serious health issue falls through the cracks they'll be looking at me taking court action, that's a fact.

I think they're a disgrace quite frankly.

There has been so many sad stories of people becoming more poorly than they might have done and some died if they could have seen a doctor or not had their treatment cancelled. The one that really stopped me in my tracks was the story of a mother with a five year old poorly child who had been refused an appointment several times. She broke her way into her doctors surgery where her daughter then died on the floor.

Whatever the whys and wherefore have we really become a country where that can happen because no one would help?

@ineedsun Because a 6 year old baby has a rash on his face and chest which is getting worse and spreading. Kindly advise me how they can view it over the phone?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

What on EARTH are the GPs doing instead?

At least some seem to be waiting until the issue forces "paid appointments", at which point I fully expect them to find themselves available again

Despite the cries of GP shortages, government faults and all the rest, I've yet to see anyone explain why NHS GPs suddenly - magically even - become open to consultations on the offer of money from their patients

If that's the case why don't all these greedy GPs just move to the private sector?

[quote Redredwiney]@ineedsun Because a 6 year old baby has a rash on his face and chest which is getting worse and spreading. Kindly advise me how they can view it over the phone?[/quote]
I mean 6 month old

I know of parents whose children are in year 13 and applying to Uni. They’re actively discouraging them from applying for medicine because of how stressful it has become working in the NHS. If this attitude becomes the norm then things are only going to become much worse in terms of GP shortages and a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Someone further up mentioned that other countries must have over anxious parents who take their child to the GP for just a cold. I’m not sure they do to the extent that goes on here. I recently had to take my son to A and E for an actual medical emergency late at night. The waiting room was full. It seemed to be a mixed bag, some of whom looked like they needed checking out, others who were eg walking round perfectly fine on a foot that had a tiny dressing on the heel - THAT’S the sort of thing that people need to stop bothering A and E for and instead wait till the next day and take them to a walk in centre or speak to a pharmacist (who in my experience are actually really helpful). Plus you see it all the time on the ambulance programmes on TV; people phoning an ambulance when they could simply have got a taxi there instead, saving themselves time and the NHS a grand, not to mention putting someone else in a genuine emergency at risk of not being reached quick enough by ambulance crews cos they re held up having to act as a taxi driver. It makes me fume. What’s needed is more education - more TV shows and campaigns on what each aspect of healthcare costs the NHS, example scenarios of what a patient’s options are when they’re looking for treatment. Unnecessary visitors to A and E advised by the triage nurse that they should go somewhere more appropriate next morning.

Problem is that will never happen just in case of the tiny risk that someone is sent away and then deteriorates. So they treat everyone’s the same and they join the huge queue to be seen by a doctor. I’ve seen it with my dad too. He’s in his late 80s, I’ve been in A and E with him all night and having to hold him upright in his chair as he blacks out from severe gallstone pain. All the while watching in amazement as groups of people treating it like a dramatic family or friends night out come in in a pack, one with a tiny cut on their head forehead where they fell over after the pub or got in a fight. I mean, for God’s sake. It’s disgusting. It’s like some people love the attention and drama, and so many just have no resilience at all. Sometimes I’m ashamed to be from this country, our healthcare system gets abused so much. We’re full of snowflakes, and the genuine people in need of care are too polite to push for themselves, and just soldier on.

[quote TataMamma]@ineedsun
Nope, not totally wrong. Before Covid, I got a walk in appt on the day whenever I wanted one. Since Covid not had a single in person appt despite both me and DD clearly needing to be SEEN by a Dr. If your experiences are different, lucky you, but lots of people are clearly in my boat.[/quote]
Did you read / watch any of the Brexit stuff? Have you looked into the measures being taking by NHS England and Health Education England about the chronic and increasing shortfall of GPs and primary care and the reasons for this?

These issues are not new, they’ve been going on for years, if you were historically able to get walk in appointments on the same day whenever you wanted, you’re the lucky one.
These issues are systemic and long term, covid has heightened the issue because more people are asking for appointments and they’ve had to find different ways of working so that surgeries don’t become hotbeds for transmission. But the shortage of GPs is not new, they haven’t decided to opt out and do fuck all.

DS 10 has ADHD. His meds have side effects, so he needs to have his height, weight, blood pressure and heart rate checked once a month. He was travelling half an hour on the bus to CAMHS to get it done, because the GP's surgery wasn't seeing anyone face to face, thankfully his CAMHS doctor emailed them and said that he was 9 (at the time) and missing important school work for appointments. It's seemingly impossible to get a GP's appointment for anything else.

My friend is a GP and it sounds like a very stressful job at the moment. She said basically that lots of people put off seeing their GP during the pandemic and are now booking appointments so they’re overwhelmed.

Put off seeing their GP???
Do you remember what it was like at the height of the pandemic? You couldn’t get near a GP, and the inference was that you were a social pariah, if you dared to take up your GPs time with other ailments when there was a global pandemic to deal with. (Despite GP practices not having anything to do with anyone with Covid or CV symptoms, if mine was anything to go by).

I was going to say pretty much exactly the same. It seems like only in the last two or three months when things are back to 'normal' - 'normal' being telephone consultations and being extremely reluctant to ever see somebody F2F. If telephone appointments are the way forward, why on earth didn't they start these during the height of the pandemic? How come you couldn't consult with a GP at all, when by phone would have been perfectly safe?

I would have hoped we could have had to 'make do' during the pandemic with phone appointments and then now back to normal (still with phone appointments available as an option where suitable and appropriate). Instead, there was nothing at all during the pandemic and only now, as things are getting back to normal, do we have mainly 'pandemic' measures - apparently now ongoing indefinitely.

I'm not criticising individual GPs, but the system most clearly doesn't work. The NHS repeat prescription email system - which I presume is national - doesn't work. My emails never got through, and I was told to wait a week after discovering that nothing had happened to my request and then follow it up with the surgery. Stuff that: I just email the surgery direct now.

Think how angry people would be if they had to wait an extra 15 minutes to get their food at McDonalds - yet an extra week or two wait for life-maintaining drugs, never knowing where you were or if anything had been received/was being done, is considered acceptable. Even then, random items get missed off every time and have to be requested yet again, which they never treat as a priority. I ended up having to buy very basic supplies for my condition on eBay - which is outrageous (and not financially sustainable for me). Phoning them is never straightforward - you wait ages and often still never get to speak to somebody. I'm no fan of McDonalds, but at least they do treat you like they want you to be there using their services and not like you're a bothersome encumbrance to them.

I'm middle-aged, work flexibly, am reasonably mobile, am fully comfortable with phones and the internet and I still end up hugely frustrated when I can't get the basic care I need. I dread to think how terrible the experience must be for very elderly and/or frail folk who can't use computers/apps/the internet and many of whom struggle to hear when on a normal old-fashioned phone call.

I don't know what the answer is - all I know is that using my GP's services at any level now (even just for repeat prescriptions, which should be the easiest thing of all) fills me with a sense of foreboding and I now expect things not to work and to have to keep chasing up delays and mistakes; it shouldn't be like this.