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Original poster

Would you pay cash in hand to save a large amount of money?

100 replies

TattiePants · 06/10/2021 17:54

We’re currently getting quotes for a new roof and the first two quotes came back yesterday. The first roofer has quoted between £19-£25k (depending on materials) for the main roof but that is on the insistence that we pay for it all in cash. He didn’t give me an on the books rate as he wouldn’t take the job if I wasn’t paying cash. Despite being cash in hand he’s still significantly higher than the second quote. We won’t be using him but even if he was cheaper, I still couldn’t bring myself to use him. Just wondering if other people would be prepared to save money (approx. £6k) by letting a tradesperson fiddle their tax.

OP posts:
NailsNeedDoing · 06/10/2021 19:38

If it were for a necessary job rather than a luxury one, and as long as I had fair reason to trust that this tradesman was good at his job, I wouldn’t mind paying cash. It’s none of my business as a customer what a tradesman does with their own taxes.

1forAll74 · 06/10/2021 19:47

I have done it a few times over the years, and always had great jobs done.

Original poster
TattiePants · 06/10/2021 19:51

@TSSDNCOP no I'm in the NE which makes the supposedly 'discounted' price even more astronomical! Sounds like there are a few of them about.

OP posts:

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KobaniDaughters · 06/10/2021 19:53

Depends - I live in a part of a country where there are a lot of “illegal” immigrants who have been through hell to escape terrible situations in their own countries. I’d pay them cash in hand if I knew the work would be good.

MatildaIThink · 06/10/2021 20:13

@wanttomarryamillionaire

In fact absolutely every single SE person i know doesn't declare all their earnings, cant say i blame them either!
You don't think there is anything wrong with them committing fraud and paying less tax than they are legally required to, when they already pay less in income taxation that those on PAYE?
waybill · 06/10/2021 22:20

@wanttomarryamillionaire

All the tradesmen i know will all do it cheaper cash in hand and not one of them are unreliable or bad workmen! Why would you give the government any more than you absolutely have to? I don't know what world the people of MN live in half the time!
Because it isn't a case of paying more than they absolutely have to. They are giving the government less than they are legally obliged to, and that is fraud.

And it means that everyone else has to pay more tax in the end.

Tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion isn't. Doing cash-in-hand jobs and not declaring the income is tax evasion.

simitra · 07/10/2021 00:57

I pay my cleaner and gardener direct bank transfer and their tax affairs are their own business. I dont want the hassle of "employing" people and these people are self employed so far as I am concerned. However I would think very carefully for a "big" job.

Winniemarysarah · 07/10/2021 01:02

I would and have for multiple things, wouldn’t for a 25k roof though.

simitra · 07/10/2021 01:03

You can also find yourself on a sticky wicket paying cash in hand if you want someone to share the expenses.

Some years back when I rented the NDN asked the LL to share the expense of a new dividing fence. LL agreed but made it clear she needed "invoices" so she could photocopy them for her accountant. Of course it was a business expense for LL.

The NDN tried to cheat the LL by using recycled panels rather than new ones. She had a bunch of cash in hand cowbows who were also doing other jobs for her at the same time. I tipped off LL who made it clear that no money would change hands until she had copies of official receipts on a letterhead with a breakdown of materials, labour and VAT for the exact cost of the fence. Of course NDN was unable to produce these and constantly whinged about it to me. Because she tried to cheat LL she had to bear the entire expense herself.

Djifunrsn · 07/10/2021 01:21

What the fuck would he do with £25grand in cash 😱

That’s not just cash in hand for a £250 job, that is a crazy amount of money. I mean if someone just handed you that, where would you even put it. Is he a drug dealer or something?

That said, it’s not illegal to pay cash for services. But for that much money it seems too risky. What if you got the 25k ready and then got burgled?

PurpleOkapi · 07/10/2021 02:05

Cash? Yes. In advance? No. The amount saved isn't worth the practical impossibility of getting any of it back if the work isn't done well, or on time, or at all.

StarCat2020 · 07/10/2021 02:25

Your story sounds like the beginning of one of those cowboy builder programmes.

Yaya26 · 07/10/2021 02:30

@wanttomarryamillionaire

All the tradesmen i know will all do it cheaper cash in hand and not one of them are unreliable or bad workmen! Why would you give the government any more than you absolutely have to? I don't know what world the people of MN live in half the time!
I was wondering the same. Why is everyone busting themselves to pay taxes.
Yaya26 · 07/10/2021 02:34

The same government who had to be shamed into continuing school dinners to children during a pandemic.

Graphista · 07/10/2021 02:42

Nope!

For a number of reasons

1 wouldn't want to support criminal behaviour which this is

2 wouldn't want to potentially be supporting organised crime which a lot of these fly by nights types are linked to

3 if they're dodgy at this early stage I wouldn't trust them to do a good job, do it safely and within regulations. There are a LOT of health and safety potential issues here. My dad used to be a H&s exec officer and he'd tell you some real horror stories! Not just poor work but home owners being made ill even fatally so by such dodgy workers

4 even if they did "only" do a poor/dodgy job how the hell would you prove it? That you'd paid them? You'd be stuffed for trying to sue!

4 you'd be invalidating your home insurance in all likelihood which has a whole load of other possible ramifications

@rosie1959 "cash in hand" doesn't mean just paying physically in cash it means not paying vat etc it's illegal

As a chartered accountant aren't you required to report to hmrc? My aunt was a forensic accountant and she's have said you do to meet your code of ethics

The main reason to avoid dodgy people like this is to protect yourself!

rosie1959 · 07/10/2021 07:22

@Graphista

Nope!

For a number of reasons

1 wouldn't want to support criminal behaviour which this is

2 wouldn't want to potentially be supporting organised crime which a lot of these fly by nights types are linked to

3 if they're dodgy at this early stage I wouldn't trust them to do a good job, do it safely and within regulations. There are a LOT of health and safety potential issues here. My dad used to be a H&s exec officer and he'd tell you some real horror stories! Not just poor work but home owners being made ill even fatally so by such dodgy workers

4 even if they did "only" do a poor/dodgy job how the hell would you prove it? That you'd paid them? You'd be stuffed for trying to sue!

4 you'd be invalidating your home insurance in all likelihood which has a whole load of other possible ramifications

@rosie1959 "cash in hand" doesn't mean just paying physically in cash it means not paying vat etc it's illegal

As a chartered accountant aren't you required to report to hmrc? My aunt was a forensic accountant and she's have said you do to meet your code of ethics

The main reason to avoid dodgy people like this is to protect yourself!

Nobody mentioned cash in hand that is a totally different thing Being paid cash for an invoice is not illegal Why would they be invalidating their home Insurance if the job is done properly Now I wouldn't pay cash for such a big job but it really isn't illegal
rosie1959 · 07/10/2021 07:24

I correct my self the OP mentioned cash in hand but this usually relates to a different transaction ie bar staff hired quickly to help out ect

HopeYourHighHorseBucks · 07/10/2021 07:33

Would depend on many factors. For that amount probably not, or at least not until the work was completed.

Chicchicchicchiclana · 07/10/2021 07:41

@rosie59 - no one legit wants £20,000 in cash do they though? Come on. It's an enormous pita to handle and offload. I can't think of any reason wby it would be more convenient for this tradesman to be paid in cash rather than by bank transfer.

WeAreTheHeroes · 07/10/2021 07:42

@NailsNeedDoing

If it were for a necessary job rather than a luxury one, and as long as I had fair reason to trust that this tradesman was good at his job, I wouldn’t mind paying cash. It’s none of my business as a customer what a tradesman does with their own taxes.
Except it is your business as a customer if you know they are underdeclaring their earnings in order to evade tax. It's a criminal offence and you as a customer are committing one if you know and don't tell HMRC.

Someone committing tax fraud on this scale is dodgy as fuck. He'll be getting anyone who works for him to commit fraud when declaring their own earnings and charging some customers over the odds in order to hide his dodgy practices. Who wants to deal with this kind of person? I know I don't. I am also in a chartered profession with a code of conduct to adhere to.

Honestly, some posters just don't grasp how much fraud of this sort there is and the magnitude of the effect on the economy. I wouldn't want to be complicit either.

borntobequiet · 07/10/2021 07:45

Cash is legal tender. As an accountant you should know that.

AFuturisticalSound · 07/10/2021 07:54

It was initially confusing, especialys you'd tink an accountant would know the difference Grin

Anyway, lots of panties getting in a bunch when no one knows if the roofer was going to supply a valid invoice. And who knows how much profit he'd be making, you know he's not keeping all that money for himself, the tile shop isn't going to be giving him the tiles cheap if he pays in cash, maybe the scaffolder might but if he's not declaring the income and he's VAT registered he's going to be losing out by not putting things in his books surely

Original poster
TattiePants · 07/10/2021 07:55

@rosie1959 I agree it’s not illegal to ask for payment in cash but I very much suspect the invoice I get for my £35k will not be the invoice that goes through his books - that will be for a much lower amount, if it appears at all.

My title is actually misleading, talking to DH this morning he pointed out that the roofer never said we would get any saving from paying cash eg that we’d save 20% by not being charged the vat. It was basically, if you want me to to the job, these are my terms, take it or leave it. I guess this partly accounts for why he is £8k more expensive than the other quote I’ve had so far. DH also reminded me that he’d told us not to tell anyone about asking cash only. That, together with knowing he regularly demands cash, confirms to me that he isn’t declaring all his income and he’s been doing it for a long time.

OP posts:
Horst · 07/10/2021 07:55

Most self employed people skim a bit even if it’s the odd price of a coffee here and there. I doubt actually that there is a single person who hasn’t claimed something they shouldn’t have or written a coffee here and there or just put though that fiver once in a while.

As long as I had my version of the paperwork with a warranty I don’t care what they do with the money I pay them. Their tax is their issue. Bigger fish to fry like the global companies who don’t pay rather than Bob down the road skimming a couple of grand.

WeAreTheHeroes · 07/10/2021 07:56

@borntobequiet

Cash is legal tender. As an accountant you should know that.
You win goady post of the day! It's not paying cash on its own per se which is the issue, it's paying cash when you know the reason is to evade tax. If someone lowers the price for cash then that's a clear indicator they are not declaring their earnings fully in order to evade tax at least in some part.
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