Sexism/feminism/mysogny: What does being a women really mean to you?

[MrsPeacockInTheLibrary]

I am running a session with young people soon on women's rights/feminism/mysogyny etc. Part of this has come out of conversations from recent events in their own social groups, as well as sadly on the news of course.

I have things I would know to talk about already: everyday sexism, metoo, females not paid as much, domestic abuse statistics etc, representation in the media, sexual double standards... in fact, so much that it is depressing to think how wide the net is.

I have asked some older students to share their stories, and it occured to me to ask you all as well. If you wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on some of these prompts, or anything else you feel is relevant, it will give me a sense of what I can summarise and talk them about as a way of starting some discussions. I hope I have expressed this appropriately. No one is being asked to share personal details or anything they feel uncomfortable with.

Do you have a first memory or experience of sexism?

What were your experiences of growing up as a teenage girl?

How have you seen people react to the ideas of feminist/feminism?

What stereotypes have you been aware of or constricted by?

Those are just some random prompts to get ideas going. hope I have made sense.

Do you have a first memory or experience of sexism?
In the 80s first job as a 17 year old girl in an office. A boy who was younger was appointed a year after me but got promoted first. It absolutely was not on merit. I was furious! I think it was my first feeling of understanding sexism.

What were your experiences of growing up as a teenage girl?
Lots of cat calls and feeling like I couldn't say no to boys for worrying about hurting feelings.

How have you seen people react to the ideas of feminist/feminism?
I haven't really seen any reactions first hand.

What stereotypes have you been aware of or constricted by?
That girls are smiley and pleasant. Even other women say that they don't like other women as they are bitchy. Men can be just as bitchy and so much ruder!
Women have to listen and men's opinions are more valid.

Bump! I probably made this too wordy - but thank you!

You could discuss the wholesale removal of women’s rights to single sex spaces, OP. If self ID is pushed through as law, any man will be able to walk into women’s changing rooms/showers/refuges/sports teams - and any girl or woman who objects to the sight of a naked penis will be arrested for a hate crime.
You could discuss the silencing of women, the theft of our language, calling us menstruators and cervix havers, removing our right to name ourselves as a class that suffers sex based oppression.
You could discuss the pressure on young lesbians to date people with penises who identify as women. The use of puberty blockers off licence on confused young autistics and lesbians.
You could discuss violent porn, and the shocking fact that 26% of young women have been choked during sex without consent.
I am in my 60s, a radfem veteran who came of age in the 1970s. I go back before the equal pay act, before legal abortion. And I have never seen such virulent misogyny and outright war on women as the present day.

Have you seen this website? It's a catalogue of women and girls everyday experiences of sexism.

everydaysexism.com/

I think the sex pay gap is a very important discussion. Quite a few people are silenced when they complain about earning disparity and are told women get paid the same wage for the same work. This is true for the most part but does not address why women are so underrepresented in high paying and influential roles within companies which is a contributing factor in the pay gap. Discussion about why unskilled or semi-skilled work carried out by a predominantly female work force often attracts a lower wage than unskilled or semi skilled work carried out by a predominantly male work force.

Asking attendees to think about whether the world would be different if the institutions of power were all lead by women might stimulate an interesting discussion.

Do you have a first memory or experience of sexism? - when my parents were told that I shouldn't do extended maths GCSE as "girls often struggle" - I went on to do maths at university

What were your experiences of growing up as a teenage girl? - I remember wearing sports bras to try and reduce the size of my chest, trying to sit out PE as I was so embarrassed by my boobs bouncing around, wearing the biggest most enormous clothes I could to hide my shape and attention I got.

How have you seen people react to the ideas of feminist/feminism? - Most people react positively to the general idea but then when you get into the nitty gritty - eg. that libfems believe that sex work is work just like any other job, that kind of thing - there is strong pushback from many I know.

What stereotypes have you been aware of or constricted by? - Having a baby was the moment I flew into the patriarchy like a bird into a glass door. I hadn't really felt directly held back in my career until then - in fact if you had asked me I probably would have said that we had reached equality, didn't need feminism any more(!) but then BOOM. I had a baby and suddenly it was "oh we're not staffing you on that project as you have a baby" - "oh we didn't invite you to that evening networking thing as we thought you'd want to get home to your baby" etc. And then when I left, it was "oh are you going to stay home with the baby" and I was like, FUCK YOU, I'm starting my own business. Which I did!!

Becoming a mother was what radicalised me.

I am apologise now as I'm not very good at getting my point across, but one thing that makes me so frustrated/sad/angry about sexism, misogyny and violence against women is that I don't think men will truly ever understand how women feel about it.

I was watching episode one of The Fall last night, I'd never seen it before but it features a sadistic rapist and serial killer who gets off on choking, raping and killing his victims.

It made me truly so uncomfortable to watch. DH obviously didn't particularly enjoy watching that scene, but he didn't react to it the way I did. I know its just a TV programme, but all I could think about was Sarah Everard and how strikingly similar the scene must have been to her murder. I went to bed and I couldn't stop thinking about that scene. Because that is the reality for women, women across the world are murdered by men and we have to face the prospect that if it happened to us we'd have very little power to defend ourselves. DH would never even think about the possibility of him being in that situation because it's a rare occurance but for me I just couldn't forget that this is what millions of women have experienced.

Men will never truly understand the fear of walking home after dark, the "what if" moment you get when you walk past a man after dark and you are mentally planning what you would do if they attacked you, where you would run, how you would try to defend yourself. It feels so bloody unfair that men don't have to worry about this yet for women it's an automatic response.

Men will also never understand how powerless, worthless, frightened and humiliated women feel living in a world where nearly all men regularly watch pornography and some men regularly visit prostitutes (Wayne Cuzens included). It should not be legal for men to pay for sex

Is it a mixed sex session? Because it probably shouldn't be.

I have a fat disorder. I was always comparatively fat as a child, although looking back at photos I was bigger than some but not huge. I later learned about misogyny, when people don't like women's non-compliance, when we aren't small and thin, when we don't show obedience by dieting and trying to be smaller. Being scorned for my fatness was my first experience of sexism.

Do you have a first memory or experience of sexism?
Not being allowed to play football in school. That was for boys. Girls played rounders and netball. Be nice and polite, even when you were subject to grabby hugs, etc.

What were your experiences of growing up as a teenage girl?
A friend and I were flashed at by an old man when aged 12. Vulgarities shouted at me from as young as 13 years old. Small, curvy and usually on my own, so looked vulnerable. Groups of boys, soldiers (grew up in 80s Northern Ireland), men in vans shouting what they wanted to do to me. I didn't know what they meant half the time. Groped at settings like gigs, but a swift elbow/kick usually sorted that out. Became more bolshy in my late teens and in the days before mobile phones we as a group looked out for each other when out.

How have you seen people react to the ideas of feminist/feminism?
People still thought it was a dirty word somehow when I was growing up. I was influenced by the likes of the Greenham Common women early on. Joined women's groups and educated myself as an older teen. Didn't think I'd live in a time where women's rights would crumble away day by day.

What stereotypes have you been aware of or constricted by?
All this "be kind" rhetoric - shorthand for "shut up, woman". As a teen I bought into the "women can have it all" line. Yes, we maybe could but for lower pay and still have to tend to domestic drudgery on top. All while looking fabulous, of course. 🙄

I'm now a bit of a stereotype in that I'm becoming increasingly invisible with age, etc. and that doesn't exactly bother me.

Do you have a first memory or experience of sexism?
Nope, there's probably plenty little things here or there, but nothing stands out. Sure, people have probably looked at my boobs at certain points but then I've clocked other people's boobs too, or a good rear.

What were your experiences of growing up as a teenage girl?
I was a tomboy. I always got on better with boys cause they were easier to be friends with. They stood up for me and looked out for me. I had a friendship with a girl when I first went to secondary school and she used the friendship to steal from me. I was gullible, in retrospect.

How have you seen people react to the ideas of feminist/feminism?
It has cropped up a lot for me because I went to university to do a male-dominated course and now work in an extremely male dominated career. The idea of equality, the role of females in the industry, the value we can bring, etc was always pushed.
I don't consider myself a feminist. I do believe in equality but I don't personally believe that modern feminism stands for equality. I cannot and will not support a cause which is transphobic. I grew up with a close friend who was trans back before people talked about this every day and I saw what she went through even in a supportive environment.

What stereotypes have you been aware of or constricted by?
None. As I said, I work in a male dominated environment and I am not treated differently than the rest of the team. Nobody panders to me, and equally, nobody tramples me.

In summary, I do not support campaigns like metoo. I believe they are responsible for untruthful reporting and villianisation. I believe there are some foul men out there - more so than there are foul women.

I see too much cruelty in modern feminism to ever relate to it.
And if I ever see someone in the flesh wearing an 'adult human female' tee, the temptation to thump them will be overwhelming, and I am not a violent person.