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Are there any paramedics or a+e doctors around who could give me advice regarding a first aid course I've just attended?

27 replies

NannyR · 02/10/2021 15:57

I've just attended a paediatric first aid course (level three 12 hour course) and was absolutely shocked at how bad it was. I work in childcare and have done many first aid courses over the years so I sort of know the basics and what is usually covered, but this one missed out lots of important stuff and gave wrong, and in my opinion, downright dangerous information and advice.

I would really appreciate some advice about a few points before I go back to the person who organised it with a view to making a complaint.

There were a lot of points I noted down but I've narrowed it down to what I feel were the most serious.

  • Choking - felt like it was skimmed over in less than ten minutes, but he spent a lot of time telling us how great LifeVac devices were (the company he works for sells them). None of the courses I've been on before have ever recommended them and the last one I did advised against them, but I can't remember why.
  • Asthma - "if a child is having an asthma attack, you don't want to waste time using a 'spacebar', just get the inhaler into them" this was the only info he have us about asthma, we've been told to research it at home. I have asthma and I know that, as an adult, but especially for a child, that a spacer is the most effective way of giving an aerosol inhaler.
  • Poisoning - only mentioned bleach, toilet cleaner and diazepam (no mention of plants, carbon monoxide, alcohol). His advice was to give milk or water for bleach, only milk for toilet cleaner as water will make them fill up with foam and to make them sick with salty water for tablets. No info on what to do next.
  • Allergies - he showed us an epipen and how to use it, told us we should use it if the child had puffy eyes and a red face. No information on anaphylaxis other than telling us that hay fever was an anaphylactic reaction. Told us that one jab usually clears up the reaction but if they still have symptoms after two pens you should give piriton. No mention at all of calling an ambulance or getting urgent medical help. Again we were told to research allergies for the next session.
  • Heat stroke - asked us what we thought we could do to cool someone down, we came up with fans, get them in the shade, sponge them down, he then said that they were all good ideas but the best thing to do was to put lemon juice on the back of their neck, lemon juice stops heat stroke.

I really feel shocked at how bad the whole thing was, I've got enough experience to know that it was bad advice but there were younger nursery nurses there who were doing their first course and taking it all as gospel truth. The nursery manager said she will be ordering a LifeVac device first thing Monday.

I feel I need to make a complaint but I would really value some advice, that the above points are as bad as I think they are.

Thank you

OP posts:
insancerre · 02/10/2021 16:01

Not medically trained at all but I’ve done enough paediatric first aid courses over the last 30 years to agree with you
Complain and complain very loudly

PlanDeRaccordement · 02/10/2021 16:01

That is truly awful OP. Some very wrong and dangerous advice being given out there. I would certainly file a long complaint.

nocoolnamesleft · 02/10/2021 16:11

Bloody hell. I'm shocked. Was this incompetent being paid for this "guidance"?!

Choking: inexperienced hands need to learn the choking protocol, not how to faff around with equipment they don't know how to use. And suspect there is a reason that ambulances and A&E depts don't routinely stock this device.

Asthma: dangerous advice. With a spacer, you get pretty good particle deposition into the lungs, even during a nasty attack. Without the spacer, it isn't going to get into the lungs.

Poisoning: nope, do not make them sick. Definitely don't. That advice went out decades ago.

Allergies: hay fever is anaphylaxis? Is this guy a total idiot? One jab clears up the reaction? Dangerous idiot. The epipen is to buy time to get the ambulance there, and the antihistamines (and steroids) in.

Heat stroke: what the actual fuck? Lemon juice will just give them a stick neck. Also, don't do damp sponging. Causes peripheral vasoconstriction, which actually encourages the core temperature to rise.

In short, this guy is giving dangerous advice. I beg you to complain.

(Paediatric Consultant)

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NannyR · 02/10/2021 16:38

Thank you, will be writing a lengthy complaint and talking to the manager who booked it on Monday.

OP posts:
Darkrainbow · 02/10/2021 16:43

This is appalling advice, all of it. Complain very loudly OP.

HumbugWhale · 02/10/2021 16:43

Please suggest that everyone who attended this course is contacted and invited to attend another course with the correct advice. These people are looking after other people's children, the thought that they might not call an ambulance to a child suffering an anaphylactic reaction is terrifying.
There is better training available on the St John's YouTube videos!

Ghislainedefeligonde · 02/10/2021 16:46

You are right to be shocked and certainly complain and make sure all attendees are aware of how bad the advice was. Did they charge you for this session??

NannyR · 02/10/2021 16:50

Did they charge you for this session??
Yes, £60🙁

OP posts:
Porfre · 02/10/2021 16:51

Anyone who had an EpiPen used on them needs an ambulance calling Asap, esp if 2 were needed

ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn · 02/10/2021 16:53

That is horrific.

It might be worth adding links to accurate guidance, I highly recommend the Anaphylaxis Campaign for anaphylaxis.

waybill · 02/10/2021 16:53

Strewth. That's appalling. Did you book the course independently or was it through your workplace?

Choconuttolata · 02/10/2021 16:54

What everyone else said. This trainer is giving advice that would put a child's life at risk and he needs to be stopped.

Madwife123 · 02/10/2021 16:55

WTF!!! Please make a complaint, some very very dangerous advice there!

greensnail · 02/10/2021 16:56

That is absolutely shockingly terrible. Please complain, they need to ensure that everyone who attended is aware how dangerous and wrong all this information is.

NannyR · 02/10/2021 16:57

I work as a nanny and usually book using a brilliant local company, my friend works in a nursery and they had booked a different company to do a course for the nursery staff, they had a spare space and asked if I wanted to come.

OP posts:
Darkrainbow · 02/10/2021 16:58

Was the person running the course a member of a professional body? I'd actually consider reporting them if so, and I really dont say that lightly.

BlowDryRat · 02/10/2021 16:59

That's shocking. Was this course accredited?!

NeverDropYourMooncup · 02/10/2021 17:04

That's appalling. Absolutely fucking appalling.

Please do complain.

Greybeardy · 02/10/2021 17:23

Someone else has posted here before about courses run by someone flogging lifevacs that were similarly off piste. Almost everything you’ve mentioned in your examples is indeed utter nonsense and much of it is frankly dangerous.

First aid training isn’t terribly well regulated in the UK but the HSE does have some useful info on the hse.gov website.

If there was any reference to the resus council guidelines (or any of the major first aid providers work) made during the course I would feed back to them that their material/guidelines are being used - they may be able to advise.

If the course was organised through your employer I believe they do have a responsibility to ensure they have chosen a course that’s actually useful (or at least not dangerous!).

Goldi321 · 02/10/2021 17:23

Dangerous medical advice being given and the worst thing is this will stick in people’s minds even when they are retrained with the appropriate advice and confuse them.
I’d make a huge complaint to the company running it.

catscatscurrantscurrants · 02/10/2021 17:25

Good friend is a St John workplace trainer with paediatric qualification, ex frontline ambulance personnel. She feels that much of what you were told is 'downright dangerous' in her words - you should complain about the trainer and course, and report the company to HSE for investigation.

ICUDoc · 02/10/2021 18:20

All of that advice was awful… I would absolutely complain in writing!

Mazzaroo87 · 02/10/2021 18:25

Hi

I am a First Aid trainer with Mini First Aid. Lots of inaccurate and dangerous advice there. Was the course accredited? Can you see anywhere on your certificate the name of the awarding body for example FAIB, NUCO, OfQual? If so you should complain to these. Happy to chat if you need any help.

Bloodymess · 02/10/2021 18:27

Obviously not substitute for proper first aid course and reading the links fully. I am not a medical expert so if someone else posts refer to that
As a previous poster mentioned power of suggestion here are links to the correct thing to do. My summary is very brief so maybe some experts will come along with something easier to remember.

Choking - if very easy remove the hazard, otherwise trying may block more, slap on back 5, and then abdominal thrust 5 reassess

www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/first-aid-and-safety/first-aid/how-to-stop-a-child-from-choking/

Asthma - sit child up, use inhaler puff 30-60 seconds until 10 taken assist child to do so if old enough, use spacer, if no inhaler or not working 999

www.asthma.org.uk/advice/child/asthma-attacks/

Poisoning try to find out what has been taken and amount, call 999, reassure, do not give them anything to drink or make them sick
www.redcross.org.uk/first-aid/learn-first-aid-for-babies-and-children/poisoning#5

Anaphylaxis- use adrenaline- there are now three makes someone might have (I see from nhs - can someone confirm?) EpiPen, Jext and Emerade. Instructions on side of the pen, you can find instructions on link below - call 999 even if they are getting better, if possible remove the allergen. In most cases lie the child down. A further pen can be used.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/anaphylaxis/treatment/

BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 02/10/2021 19:00

I did the 12 hour paediatric first aid course in December. I also have emergency first aid and first aid at work qualifications. What OP has been “taught” is appalling! I would be complaining and demanding my money back.

I would be horrified if anyone caring for my children had that sort of “knowledge”.