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They joke about raping women and stuffing them in the boot: female police officers tell their work stories

61 replies

DaveCoaches · 02/10/2021 14:29

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/joke-raping-women-stuffing-boot-female-police-officers-tell/

I think this is behind a paywall, I will c&p some sections.

OP posts:
deeni · 03/10/2021 16:11

No you're right, sorry. I didn't intend to say that "if they suffer, any bad behaviour is understandable or excusable".

I think I was trying to say something more like: if the police system is set up in a way that traumatises any decent employees in it (who then either adapt in order to survive, or leave), then that's a big part of the problem too.

DaveCoaches · 03/10/2021 19:15

I think you make some really good points. I think they do have to deal with so much shit and I do believe lots are there just to do their best and help people. But I can’t see that the below statement is true. WC was never reported, despite being nicknamed ‘the rapist’ and bringing prostitutes to work events (according to the Sun anyway). I’ve read before about a police officer accused of raping colleagues but not being suspended; the colleagues in the WhatsApp chat with WC have not been suspended. The fact that colleagues wanted to testify at his trial and did and have not been suspended or sacked for doing so. And that’s just the stuff in the press.

These bad officers are now widely reported and got rid of.

OP posts:
ffsgivemestrength · 03/10/2021 20:10

I'm in no way trying to suggest that all male police officers are perfect and I have no doubt that everything coming out about him are completely true. What I have repeatedly said is that things are changing for the better and have been changing at speed for at least the last 5 years. I have no doubt he picked up that nickname a long time ago, for potentially many reasons knowing the dark humour many officers have (I'm not condoning it), many of the stories of misogynistic behaviour about various officers seems to have happened a long time ago. Still doesn't make it right but it has to be acknowledged that things are changing.

In the force I work in recently it was reported that a group of young student officers had a private social media group where sexist comments were routinely made. All of the officers in the group were sacked, including and officer who was in the group who never commented... he was sacked because he didn't report the group. These hearings are all public but you don't see the press reporting on them.

There are about 130'000 officers and moral is on its knees. I spend a lot of time having to watch the most graphic horrendous child sexual abuse videos in order to grade them to lock up paedophiles, you'd be shocked how common it is.. I guarantee you probably know several men who view it it's so common, yet the public are so completely blind to the daily routine absolutely horrific work many officers are dealing with daily, and now the media are whipping the public into a frenzy making an officers daily work even harder. Officers deal with severely mentally ill people everyday. Officers receive absolutely no training in how to deal with people, I've personally stopped 2 people throwing themselves off high places, no training in how to talk to them, just had to do what we all do and tried my best.. if they had jumped I'd have been investigated and potentially sacked if a person who wasn't there decided I didn't say the right things. Every job you go to you don't know what you're going to find when you get there. That's why officers often appear to have defences up ... you learn it's safer to go in defensive and get softer than it is to go in soft and suddenly find yourself being attacked. This is EVERY DAY. And every officer joins thinking that they'll do it differently, they'll be the cop that can go in soft... you learn quickly for your own and other people's safety to be on high alert when attending everything.

WC was a fucking monster. It will come out in the wash if they messed up his vetting. But even things like that aren't simple. How do you check the social media pages that haven't been declared on vetting forms, are in a different names and have privacy settings? You can't.

Routing out the bad apples takes time. Not every person will be sacked if they've only been reported for an inappropriate comment, but when they're reported for another one, the first one on record will be held against them and flag a potential issue. And as I keep trying to say, the bad old days are well on their way out... things that people used to let slide now people report, because they know the force will have their back these days.

DaveCoaches · 03/10/2021 20:54

That is awful about the CSA Flowers

To be fair you have done more to convince me that things are changing and the police won’t let another WC happen than Cressida Dick or any politician so props to you for that. I think that’s what’s partly angered so many people, that they have come out on the defensive and saying women need to be responsible, as ever, instead of admitting what went wrong and what changes are ongoing and will happen in the future.

OP posts:
mswales · 03/10/2021 21:06

@ffsgivemestrength

I'm in no way trying to suggest that all male police officers are perfect and I have no doubt that everything coming out about him are completely true. What I have repeatedly said is that things are changing for the better and have been changing at speed for at least the last 5 years. I have no doubt he picked up that nickname a long time ago, for potentially many reasons knowing the dark humour many officers have (I'm not condoning it), many of the stories of misogynistic behaviour about various officers seems to have happened a long time ago. Still doesn't make it right but it has to be acknowledged that things are changing.

In the force I work in recently it was reported that a group of young student officers had a private social media group where sexist comments were routinely made. All of the officers in the group were sacked, including and officer who was in the group who never commented... he was sacked because he didn't report the group. These hearings are all public but you don't see the press reporting on them.

There are about 130'000 officers and moral is on its knees. I spend a lot of time having to watch the most graphic horrendous child sexual abuse videos in order to grade them to lock up paedophiles, you'd be shocked how common it is.. I guarantee you probably know several men who view it it's so common, yet the public are so completely blind to the daily routine absolutely horrific work many officers are dealing with daily, and now the media are whipping the public into a frenzy making an officers daily work even harder. Officers deal with severely mentally ill people everyday. Officers receive absolutely no training in how to deal with people, I've personally stopped 2 people throwing themselves off high places, no training in how to talk to them, just had to do what we all do and tried my best.. if they had jumped I'd have been investigated and potentially sacked if a person who wasn't there decided I didn't say the right things. Every job you go to you don't know what you're going to find when you get there. That's why officers often appear to have defences up ... you learn it's safer to go in defensive and get softer than it is to go in soft and suddenly find yourself being attacked. This is EVERY DAY. And every officer joins thinking that they'll do it differently, they'll be the cop that can go in soft... you learn quickly for your own and other people's safety to be on high alert when attending everything.

WC was a fucking monster. It will come out in the wash if they messed up his vetting. But even things like that aren't simple. How do you check the social media pages that haven't been declared on vetting forms, are in a different names and have privacy settings? You can't.

Routing out the bad apples takes time. Not every person will be sacked if they've only been reported for an inappropriate comment, but when they're reported for another one, the first one on record will be held against them and flag a potential issue. And as I keep trying to say, the bad old days are well on their way out... things that people used to let slide now people report, because they know the force will have their back these days.

This isn't about just rooting out bad apples. It's just as much about the forces themselves. If things are getting steadily better why have only a couple of forces introduced changes to procedures since it was first revealed more than two years ago that forces were failing to adequately respond to reports of abuse by their own officers? Basic steps like having a different force investigate rather than the force that the accused works for. Why is this not happening? Would love to hear your responses to this article: www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-06-15/years-of-living-in-fear-police-still-failing-partners-of-violent-officers
Ihaventgottimeforthis · 03/10/2021 21:07

This culture change is going to take a long long time though.
The police & the military attract a certain type of individual, and there's no doubt they sheltered, enabled & even celebrated racist, misogynistic & homophobic attitudes & behaviours, under the guise of banter, dark humour and Churchillian 'rough men ready to deliver violence'
To turn that tanker around is going to take years, especially when society at large seems to be going in the opposite direction.

ffsgivemestrength · 03/10/2021 21:08

Thank you for listening. Every officer I know is angry at the fuckwittery of the politics being played, every officer is angry that absolute idiots are being given air time... and I'm talking about high ranking officers being these idiots given air time. Stupid opinions by dinosaurs like commissioner Philip Allott have infuriated every female officer I know, we completely understand why the public are angry. We're angry too. But the media only report the negative and when people are seeing red with anger sometimes they forget to take a minute and dig a little deeper.

I'm genuinely sorry that you've had bad experiences. I wish some officers weren't fuckwits. Unfortunately sone are. And worse. But from my experience the fuckwits are the minority.

ffsgivemestrength · 03/10/2021 21:13

Yes it will take time to fully turn the tanker around @Ihaventgottimeforthis but it is changing. The type you describe isn't what being recruited now. Now it's mainly more academic types. Which brings its own issues, because you do need those ones who will throw themselves into the middle of a violent gang fight to try and break it up pretty much every weekend.. a lot of the newer generation have no idea how to deal with situations when the arrive at full on violent situations that they are expected to take control of.

ffsgivemestrength · 03/10/2021 21:32

I've got a lot of things to say about that article @mswales , but this thread is not the place for me to dissect and write an essay. As I've repeatedly stated, things are not perfect, things take time to change, but things are changing. It's going to take a longer time. But things are speeding up.

walkinonsunshine · 03/10/2021 21:55

Not surprising.
Everyone knows the police are a shit show
This might be taken a bit more seriously now?
Maybe?

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 03/10/2021 22:24

ffs I have to say that I wouldn't be able to work in the police. I definitely couldn't be the one putting my neck on the line week in week out.
I do think/hope it is possible to achieve a happy balance of principled & intelligent police officers who are also fearless & tough & not afraid to get stuck in where needed.

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