Did any of you have no proper friends when you were in secondary school?

[bluefineliner]

I have a DD13 who has always struggled to maintain friendships. Now in yr9 and every day I am dealing with tears because she isn't part of a 'group' of friends, and seems to be excluded when she tries to join in any group. She has moved friendship circles, but is always the ousted one, and until now I've been positive and encouraging her to move on if people won't include her, find something else to do on a lunch time if no one will sit with her, but it is breaking my heart. This is nothing new, she is very headstrong and very black and white on issues, so I know she isn't the easiest to get on with and have discussed this with her at great length. School have put it down to lack of self confidence. She does one out of school activity which she loves, but doesn't want to do anything else. We do things with her at the weekend, and she has one friend in the same village who goes to another school who she sees sometimes. I am at a loss to know how to deal with her emotions on this now, every time I come home I have at least an hour or two of her pouring out how she feels and what everyone has done and said, and how sad she is. Has anyone else gone through this? It is actually making me feel very down as every spare minute I have is taken going over and over the general mean (not bullying) behaviour of 13 year old girls....

Is there a chance she could be autistic? Girls mask it very well. I was never really part of any friendship group but was better 1-1 and still am. I am quite an introvert but it’s taken time to accept this. However, your daughter is struggling for other reasons. What was like in primary?

Yes, struggled at senior school and that has continued into middle age. I never quite fit in. Once friendships moved from adult driven to child driven I was generally left to myself. The couple of friendships I have are 1-2-1 not a group. Don't think it will change now, I'm mid 50s.

I didn’t have lots of close friends in secondary but I also didn’t care very much because I preferred to have my nose in a book anyway. I found my tribe at uni - we’re all slightly quirky and socially awkward and 15 years on we’re still like family. Sometimes you just don’t find your sort of people in school.

I also wasn’t really part of any group of friends and better at 1 to 1. I am very much an introvert. I was very quiet, but not sure your daughter is quiet? I remember having nobody to sit with at times and wandering the local streets on my own eating my sandwich trying to look like I was busy going somewhere. I don’t really know what my advice is, but it’s great you are listening to her. I didn’t have anyone to talk to and it would have been nice to have that.

Thank you. Primary was sort of similar as in she was quite headstrong and argumentative. It was a very small school though and I was friends with the other mums' so organised social events so she was included by that. She wasn't chosen for sleepovers though, but went to birthday parties, but I think mainly because of the small group size, so everyone went to everything. Now it is more down to her to manage friendships it is harder for her. On the outside she seems loud and confident, but inside I think not, she is happy to spend her time at home, and in her room, she is very self motivated with her school work, and quite academic. I think she just yearns for the stereotypical close group of girlfriends who hang out permanently and sleepover every weekend. She is just never going to have that, and it makes me sad, but also very helpless in being able to help her resolve it. I have a much older daughter who is completely different so am not used to this and feel like a complete failure as a parent now. Her school 'friends' say she is weird, and that is why they don't like her.

I was thrown together with a couple of the other misfit girls, but we weren't really bonded together over something in the usual teenage way. I suspect these days from knowing a lot more about autism (DS is diagnosed) that one was on the autistic spectrum. She'd be in to "normal" things but pick on quite specfic thing and be very intense about it (which always put me off, still can't watch Friends!)
I spent a lot of time on my own because I wanted to do things that my friends didn't and everyone else would turn up in packs so I didn't mix easily through those clubs.

It got easier at GCSE when the A and B halfs of the year first mixed for GCSE and doing DoE , and better again at A-level, but I didn't really find my tribe until university through a society and that's where I met DH and my best friends that have endured for 20+ years.

I was "weird" and so were my friends in their own way.

It would be worth reading up on the female profile of neurodiverse conditions like ASD and seeing if they strike a chord. (For me, I'd suspect dyspraxia and a dose of Attention Deficit Disorder)

I had 2 individual friends at school. They were my best friends and very close but I didn't feel part of their friendship groups. I felt like a tag along and all we had in common were the best friend. I felt no one actually liked me. I was shy and because I was quite attractive, probably seemed as though I thought I was superior which wasn't the case. I had severe confidence issues at the time.
I've had friends throughout life but struggled making and keeping them. I've been a stay at home mum for 8 years and I don't have any real friends anymore. I did an online assessment that said I'm autistic, so that's a possibility.

Perhaps she just isn’t suited to stereotypical group of girls sleepover. I thought I wanted that to be like everyone else, but to be honest it just isnt me.
I also found things improved at uni. You are with more similar people then.

It’s a form of bullying though. Does she want to move schools?

DS2 had no friends until sixth form. He also struggled, but has now succeeded, to make friends at uni. He is autistic and your daughter's characteristics sound like she may be too. It can take longer. The best way to make friends for someone like her, who lacks instinctive social cues, whether or not she is autistic, is to find hobby groups she's really passionate about and meet some fellow geeks, so the shared obsession bypasses all that complex social behaviour.

This sounds hard for both of you. But achieving well academically, having an interest and a friend out of school - these are big positives! You never know, the GCSE years may help. I made a friend for life sitting next to her in French and German GCSE! D of E can be bonding too.

Have you already talked to the head of year?

This was me at school. I wanted friends more than anything in the world. I'd recommend the book "Friends", if you and your daughter are into reading popular science. I wish I had it when I was thirteen. I am not sure it would have changed my life, but it might have done.
Do make sure your daughter understands that "weird" is usually a very mild catchall word that is often intended affectionately.

Would your much older daughter be up for taking that role on a little bit? Have her over for a girls movie night, take her shopping and for lunch?

That way she might get a bit of that experience? Also might give her something to talk to girls at school about?

I was the same from fourteen but I had loads of friends outside of school at theatre group who were more my type. This made school bearable. I would encourage your daughter to find more out of school activties so she will have something to look forward to while surviving school.

I thought I had friends but looking back I can see that I let them treat me like trash (probably because my mother did the same). I can’t believe some of the stuff I just accepted. The “friendships” fell apart immediately after school ended and they had no use for me anymore.

Even in some of the better “friendships”, I was labelled weird and felt that I never really fitted in. I wish I had just embraced being a loner and spent the time reading or on some other hobby instead of being desperate for the smallest scraps for kindness. I’ve accepted being alone now and I’m a lot happier for it. I’m having an assessment for inattentive ADHD soon if that helps.

Does your daughter have a diary? Maybe writing about her feelings might help.

My school was a zoo, and I hadn’t a single friend, partly because of having been taught to let people treat me like dirt by my mother. I found my feet at university where being clever was actually a positive, and have lots of friends in my 40s.

I was quite shy and didn't feel like I fitted in at school. I never saw anyone outside of school at all. I read/drawed for hours on my own.

Fast forward to uni and I met lots of new people. All of whom I am still friends with 25+ years on. Strangely, I have loads of friends now and often have people initiating a friendship when I actually have no time!

The only advice I can give is to make home a warm, happy and relaxed place. She'll be OK.

Not at 13. There was a lot of queen bee / social teasing type of bullying so that I appeared to have friends but it was a hostage situation really😄.
It settled into genuine friendships around 15/ 16 and into sixth form.

I didn't either. Again I wasn't disliked at school and did small talk with people in class, but ate lunch on my own and went for a walk outside or joined clubs etc., and never saw anyone outside of school, ever, or talked on the phone etc with anyone. I was very academic and did homework, and did well in lessons, so was seen more as a swot, rather than picked on, so it could have been worse. I joined music groups etc and had some social interaction by being in the groups, but even then, didn't really have friends exactly, or people to talk to at the breaks.

It was OK. I wasn't desperate for friends I guess, was kind of lonely, but was so desperately shy that I worried far more about being pushed into doing social things by parents/adults who felt I 'should' do them to get friends. That actually made things worse and made me panic more.

I didn't have friends at first university either, but later I did a postgrad, and there I finally made a couple of friends who were similar to me, and it was a much better time generally.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply and tell me about your own experiences, it really helps put it in perspective. I have spoken to the student pastoral care person a few times in the past, and she put it down to lack of self confidence and said she could refer her for counselling, or I could consider private if we didn't want to wait. DD didn't want to have it at that time, but I am open to getting some private therapy if it would help. Dd said the would think about it for now. I will also read up on autism in girls too. As for moving schools, we have discussed this numerous time and I am happy to do this, but she is adamant she likes the school and wants to stay. I don't think moving would help tbh as she did have these issues to a much lesser degree before secondary school. I just don't want it to escalate into increasing anxiety for her when she anticipates the worst will happen every day and she will be on her own. As yet I don't think she actually has been on her own at lunch time, but she feels she is always asking to tag onto a group which doesn't want her there really. I wish I could give her all the self confidence she needs to be her own person and walk away from those excluding her, but she doesn't have the strength to do that just now.

I had a few years like this with no friends. I used to skip lunch quite often because it was so unpleasant to have to sit on my own. I spent lunchtimes in the library (which no one else used!). After a year or two I got involved in some mixed-sex activities dominated by older boys like debating and the school magazine and made good friends that way mostly with boys 3-5 years older. (It was an odd school with single sex teaching but a boys school on the same site and some shared activities.) There was a lonely year again at the end when they had all gone to university, then I moved myself for sixth form. The possibility of moving for sixth form really helped keep me going in the worst phases -- something to consider? It was really my project, I researched the options etc. I was much happier at 6th form, I boarded at a v v academic school and loved it.

Actually thinking about it doing more male dominated activities might help her? I eventually got a career in a male dominated industry and I do seem to fit in better there. I think it’s my personality type fits better there somehow.