How do housing benefits work in the UK?

[Espressoroast]

Trying again - genuinely not trying to be goady. I’m not from the UK and my home country has a very different system.

I am a nurse (band 5, NHS) and have a colleague who lives with her mum, both also Band 5, full time employment. They’ve been in a council flat for ages (10+ years) and been both employed that whole time. I would imagine there are others who need the housing more urgently or are less able to pay on the privat market?

In my country, housing benefit must be reassessed periodically so that if you make more than a certain amount you will pay market rate and be asked to leave funded housing. Is that not how it works here? What are the benefits of the system this way?

Social housing and housing benefit are two separate things.
I have rented privately in the past and needed housing benefit, I now rent from social housing and pay the rent from my wages, with no housing benefit.
The 'bond' was much cheaper than a private rental, and after 12 months of not going into arrears with rent, it then became part of my 'account' and available to use as rent - I used it when I needed to during furlough/losing my job to prevent me falling into arrears as much and have now built it back up.
My HA is non profit, and as well as providing affordable homes to people with long term tenancies, it provides jobs to local people, amenities like play parks and sheltered/supported housing. The rent I pay is ploughed back into that and slowly, the community is improving. But this house isn't mine for life, the tenancy is, but I can request to or be asked to move when appropriate, I keep the tenancy (providing I pay rent, am not anti social and want to) but can move within their properties that are available, according to need.
I'm treated better, as in fairly, and like a customer paying for something I use, rather than treated like the LL is a paragon of virtue 'allowing' me to stay in their property in return for a not insignificant amount of money. Things are repaired in a timely fashion, so I'm not left months with no heating and hot water that I'm paying for, or holes in the roof leaking in water and out heat, and not made to feel unreasonable for wanting what I pay for.
I'm not going to have 2 months to find over £1000 to put a deposit and first month's rent down, if I can find somewhere else that is in that time frame, because the LL wants to realise their investment and sell.
I pay a bit less than the 'market' price, but, I also get less. There was no flooring, the place was filthy and there were several minor repairs that needed doing when I moved in, and I'm responsible for things that you aren't in private rent, or in fact aren't allowed to do like decoration, plastering walls, changing flooring, external fences etc.

They also didn't refuse to take me because I was a single parent, or part of my income made up of tax credits or because I have a poor credit rating.

I'd much rather the money I have go into this HA, and benefit the whole community I live in, than someone's pocket to be honest. I'm grateful to have it, but I got it because of the circumstances I found myself in, and was allocated on need and am lucky enough to be be in an area where there's enough social housing, and was able and willing to live a bit more out of the way to have the upsides described. And they have a good tenant who pays the rent on the property.
I can't afford private rent, the prices have gone up beyond that of my wages, I may well need housing benefit to manage should I go back into private rent.

All these people saying we should give our homes back have clearly not been in the situations we’ve been through to end up here. They want us to leave, and end up back here in a never ending cycle. I ended up extremely ill from all the stress, for years.

The solution is build more social housing.

@dangermouseisace

All these people saying we should give our homes back have clearly not been in the situations we’ve been through to end up here. They want us to leave, and end up back here in a never ending cycle. I ended up extremely ill from all the stress, for years.

The solution is build more social housing.

Well that’s why I think a sensible limit should be fair- if a family is taking home £60k pa why should they sit in a council property.

When I was 20 and newly orphaned I had to sell my family home- no one has the right to live anywhere and there’s lots of reasons people move.

“I agree with rent based on wages though that seems more fair as long as it can go up and down equally incase someone hits harder times.”

But that’s effectively what housing benefit does... people with an income over a certain amount pay full rent, people on low incomes receive housing benefit, coveting some or all of their rent dependant on income.

Also social housing rent isn’t actually that cheap, it just seems it if you live somewhere where the housing market in general is inflated. Social housing rent where I am is only about £100 a month less on a 3 bed house than the same house would be to rent privately.

I mean an extra £100 a month in a nurses purse is a fair amount, but it’s not a huge difference in rental terms.

All these people saying we should give our homes back have clearly not been in the situations we’ve been through to end up here. They want us to leave, and end up back here in a never ending cycle. I ended up extremely ill from all the stress, for years.

You only received the accommodation because you met some requirements. When you no longer do, but other people do then, yes, you should make way for them. Are they any less deserving than you?

I also think this should be alongside lots of other changes to the housing situation ie. no owning property from abroad, not allowed to discriminate against who rents from you etc

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

All these people saying we should give our homes back have clearly not been in the situations we’ve been through to end up here. They want us to leave, and end up back here in a never ending cycle. I ended up extremely ill from all the stress, for years.

You only received the accommodation because you met some requirements. When you no longer do, but other people do then, yes, you should make way for them. Are they any less deserving than you?

It doesn't need to be a continuous cycle. If you are earning a decent amount and no longer need social housing then you should leave or if your situation has changed you should get a smaller/bigger house accordingly. There's nothing to indicate most people will fall into a cycle and they should stay just in case.

I could really pull the ladder up and buy this property so no one gets it after me. Or spend my £200 a month H2B ISA on holidays/whatever and live in the house forever even after my children leave like many pensioners do (then have my kids 'inherit' the tenancy).

If I was given notice on my house, yes, I would end up meeting requirements again because there is a lack of rented housing, what would be available would be more than my monthly income, and if something did come up, a single mum is not going to be first choice for a landlord. Might get somewhere if you can pay 6 months rent upfront plus deposit. From experience. So I’d end up going through a load of stress to be back in priority housing need, again 🙄 plus I've spent thousands over the years on the necessary items that social housing doesn't provide, and private landlords do. It's more of a commitment than private rental, you can't just breeze in and out easily. Usually when you get allocated somewhere it is a complete state (not that I cared-just grateful to get somewhere).

If your situation changes people do change home, all the time. There is a homeswapper website where social tenants can swap to a more suitable property. Eg you get people looking for smaller if their kids have moved out.

This is why there is a shortage of social housing in England. I absolutely think it should be regularly assessed. Social housing should only be for the most needy and vulnerable. Too many people abuse the system amd that's why there's a housing crisis.

@MissMaple82

This is why there is a shortage of social housing in England. I absolutely think it should be regularly assessed. Social housing should only be for the most needy and vulnerable. Too many people abuse the system amd that's why there's a housing crisis.

What would you have the maximum earnings should be then?

Also those that stay in 3 bed houses when they only need a 1 bed grinde my gears. I am in a 3 bed social house and when the time comes I am prepared to leave and start a new chapter to allow another family in need a chance to have a deserving home. It's just plain selfish, everybody is just out for their own gains

@MissMaple82

Also those that stay in 3 bed houses when they only need a 1 bed grinde my gears. I am in a 3 bed social house and when the time comes I am prepared to leave and start a new chapter to allow another family in need a chance to have a deserving home. It's just plain selfish, everybody is just out for their own gains

Where will you go out of interest?

SH isn't and has never been connected to fucking benefits and no matter how many people do these threads to start off the frothing will change that.

Perhaps the answer is to build more social housing properties so there are not huge waiting lists in some parts of the country.

Do people in England still have the right to buy?

It's been abolished in Scotland and the council build some new properties so the situation is not so dire here as in other parts of the UK.

@MissMaple82

Also those that stay in 3 bed houses when they only need a 1 bed grinde my gears. I am in a 3 bed social house and when the time comes I am prepared to leave and start a new chapter to allow another family in need a chance to have a deserving home. It's just plain selfish, everybody is just out for their own gains

That’s assuming there’s 1 bedroom properties to move into...

The main reason that the “bedroom tax” is covered by the Scottish government isn’t altruism, it’s because there just aren’t that many 1 bedroom properties to move people into. Of course it doesn’t hurt that it makes them look altruistic, but it’s just a practicality really.

@MissMaple82

This is why there is a shortage of social housing in England. I absolutely think it should be regularly assessed. Social housing should only be for the most needy and vulnerable. Too many people abuse the system amd that's why there's a housing crisis.

There is a housing crisis because there’s a massive shortage of suitable social housing which, combined with overseas investors and large scale landlords, leaves people unable to afford decent adequate housing.

Social housing should not be only for the most needy and vulnerable. That was never the point of it and the decimation of it only benefits the rich.

@MissMaple82

Also those that stay in 3 bed houses when they only need a 1 bed grinde my gears. I am in a 3 bed social house and when the time comes I am prepared to leave and start a new chapter to allow another family in need a chance to have a deserving home. It's just plain selfish, everybody is just out for their own gains

believe it or not in a lot of parts of the country there is a severe shortage of 1 and 2 bedroom properties and plenty of 3 bedroom houses.

MissMaple how are people “abusing the system?” How is keeping to the terms of your tenancy agreement abusing the system?

If social housing was only available for those in the depths of crisis I’ll describe what will happen:
Estates full of transient people, many with mental illness or drug and alcohol problems. Single mums with children and people with learning disabilities in the middle of all this. These estates would be unsafe; no go areas. They would be a complete mess. No one would keep garden tidy, no one would live in housing with any flooring, fences that fell down would not be replaced. Why would anyone bother, if it's temporary?

I live on an estate. There's a mix of people. We've got alcoholics and drug adicts, adults with learning disabilities, elderly people and those with severe mental illness. Dealers visit our estate, and the police are around a lot. There are also people who work- builders, supermarket workers, gardeners and teachers. People who foster children, childminders, people who've bought their homes and improved them.

It's the MIX that's makes it an ok place to live. It gives those in the dire situations hope and something to aspire to, and the incentive to look after where they live.

believe it or not in a lot of parts of the country there is a severe shortage of 1 and 2 bedroom properties and plenty of 3 bedroom houses.

I'm in a 3 bed, I need 2.
In this and surrounding villages there's only 3 bed houses available unless you're over 55 or disabled, and then there's 1/2 bed bungalows.
Nearest town there's 3 or 4 bed, or 1 bed flats.
Would happily be in a 2 bed...... If there were any I qualified for, the rent would be cheaper for a start!
Once DD moves out, quite happy to move to a 1 bed if ones available, and I live in an area where social housing isn't in that much demand Vs supply.
I can't move somewhere that's not available.....

One of the HA building schemes locally recently was all 1 bed properties. I think there was something like 36 or 38 of them. Apparently that triggered the biggest shuffle of people for years because all the folks in bigger houses waiting for smaller got a move, then that let people in the 2 beds shuffle into the bigger ones, which freed up the 2 bed ones, which in turn freed up more bigger ones.

The lack of 1 and 2 bed social housing places is a huge issue. It might irritate people when a single person or elderly couple are sat in a 3/4 bed house, but given the shambolic way people are treated by many private ll's (and I am one so I'm not tarring everyone, but there are a lot of shit landlords) it's hardly surprising people with uncertain finances or reaching pension age are going to take that gamble and leave their home.

@dangermouseisace

MissMaple how are people “abusing the system?” How is keeping to the terms of your tenancy agreement abusing the system?

If social housing was only available for those in the depths of crisis I’ll describe what will happen:
Estates full of transient people, many with mental illness or drug and alcohol problems. Single mums with children and people with learning disabilities in the middle of all this. These estates would be unsafe; no go areas. They would be a complete mess. No one would keep garden tidy, no one would live in housing with any flooring, fences that fell down would not be replaced. Why would anyone bother, if it's temporary?

I live on an estate. There's a mix of people. We've got alcoholics and drug adicts, adults with learning disabilities, elderly people and those with severe mental illness. Dealers visit our estate, and the police are around a lot. There are also people who work- builders, supermarket workers, gardeners and teachers. People who foster children, childminders, people who've bought their homes and improved them.

It's the MIX that's makes it an ok place to live. It gives those in the dire situations hope and something to aspire to, and the incentive to look after where they live.

Isn't this why most SH developments are mixed with private housing now to avoid this? It's still not an argument to not have people regularly assessed and asking them to move on when they are no longer eligible. Life long tendencies and right to buy should be scrapped too. Perhaps it

And on a practical level of moving people on from social housing into private rent, how many LL's are going to rent to someone coming out of social housing, with the stigma that's attached (and alive and well judging by this thread) of needing social housing in the first place?
You're not going to look like a good prospective tenant if everyone believes you are getting a free house in social housing, everything paid for and only there because you were feckless enough to be poor in the first place.
It's alright saying people need to move on if their circumstances change, but getting LL's to rent to people like that is another obstacle all together.

It's also complete financial stupidity to move people out of social housing - where the can either afford the rent or housing benefit/lha at least goes into a system where the house is retained by the council or HA long term - into private rental and then paying £££ in housing benefits because of the silly high cost of so many private lets.

@MissMaple82

Also those that stay in 3 bed houses when they only need a 1 bed grinde my gears. I am in a 3 bed social house and when the time comes I am prepared to leave and start a new chapter to allow another family in need a chance to have a deserving home. It's just plain selfish, everybody is just out for their own gains

You’re in a 3 bed. So you must have at least 2 children of opposite sexes, one over 10? So in less than 8 years you will downsize to an easy to get, 2 bed? And then shortly after when the other child leaves at 18 (that, btw is when the time will come for you to not need the bedroom) you’ll move again to an also easy to get 1 bed council house? Yes?