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Is there any point in going to the police about this? (TW - sexual assault)

15 replies

shoulditry · 25/09/2021 19:55

I've name changed for obvious reasons.

I think I'm still in shock. DD 19 told me last night that she was raped 3 years ago. I remember the night and I know the man. We live in a small village.

Dd told me that she was pinned down and he forcibly entered her. Luckily her friend came into the room and she managed to drag him off eventually.
She didn't say anything at the time because she was too scared, understandably.
I was upstairs at the time, asleep, and I feel absolutely awful, SO guilty.

If anyone else was telling me this, I would definitely be telling them to go to the police and report this. But there's no evidence, apart from her friend witnessing it. I know his full name but not his address, and he's a very unpleasant, dangerous man who is not afraid to use violence to get what he wants.

Honestly, I'd be so grateful for any advice at all. Would the police be interested, or would they just shrug it off as something that can't be proved??

OP posts:
Heruka · 25/09/2021 19:58

So so sorry this happened to her. Great she has managed to tell you now. They would absolutely, 100% be interested. The friend seeing it is more evidence than there is in the majority of rape cases. If she feels able to go to police she would be treated sensitively and they’d advise on the prospects of conviction. They also could have other evidence from other women on this person.

shoulditry · 25/09/2021 20:09

Thank you so much for replying. My instinct is to go to the police, but I don't want to dd to go through the trauma again if it's essentially a pointless exercise.

I'm so, SO pleased that she told me. I know he was drunk and high on coke at the time.

OP posts:
Theimpossiblegirl · 25/09/2021 20:27

Your poor daughter. It needs to be her choice about reporting it, but yes, it would be taken seriously.

Heruka · 25/09/2021 20:38

Yes I can understand your reservation, sadly rape conviction rates are poor, your worries make sense. I wonder if you could call 101 and ask advice anonymously? Or ring a rape crisis service? With her consent. Just to feel a bit more equipped for supporting her in making a decision. Of course she could do these bits herself if she wishes.

genericuserneeded · 25/09/2021 20:43

I think it’s her decision and you should support her regardless. If she wants to go to them, you shouldn’t try to convince her otherwise. I mean, it’s rich considering you knew he was dangerous/drunk/high and you were asleep. It’s not your fault but you weren’t there to protect her, so it’s not fair for you to make the decision not to go to the police if she wants to

CatOfTheLand · 25/09/2021 20:46

I think you should both call a rape crisis hotline- it'll be useful for you too to be a 'client' of theirs - to talk through the options and seek support.

Conviction rates are hideously low, but prosecute/ not prosecute aren't the only options available to you at the moment. You may both need counselling and support to work through your feelings.

hairybakers · 25/09/2021 20:48

So sorry op.

I think sometimes, as the victim, just knowing that you would have support from your family if you chose to go to the police means so much. It's small but it's like it gives you a little bit of power back.

My eyes were opened when I recently served on the jury for an historic rape case. Was literally his word against hers and he was found guilty in the end.

Babyroobs · 25/09/2021 21:06

Yes I would go to the police. What was he doing in your home, did your daughter bring him home? Not that it makes a difference ,just wondering how he came to be there if he was known to be dangerous.

Martz · 25/09/2021 21:34

If your daughter is willing to go to the police, then historic offences such as this will be of interest to the police and some of them do result in convictions. Although there will be no “physical” evidence such as DNA, there is evidence in that your daughters friend witnessed it, you can corroborate that he was in the house on that evening, and if she has spoken to or made any disclosures to anybody else since then- this could also be used to support her complaint. The man could also have a record for this type of offending, which may strengthen a case against him.

Even if she doesn’t actually want to pursue a complaint against him and doesn’t want to go through the court process, the police can refer into agencies that can provide her with support and counselling should she wish to access it. So it may be worth contacting them for the access to support services alone. I hope this can help in some way.

shoulditry · 25/09/2021 21:48

@genericuserneeded

I think it’s her decision and you should support her regardless. If she wants to go to them, you shouldn’t try to convince her otherwise. I mean, it’s rich considering you knew he was dangerous/drunk/high and you were asleep. It’s not your fault but you weren’t there to protect her, so it’s not fair for you to make the decision not to go to the police if she wants to

No, no. I didn't know that beforehand, dd only mentioned drugs being involved by him casually a few days later. And as for being dangerous - that has only emerged over the last few months due to various, violent incidents in the village perpetrated by him.
He's well known as a troublemaker - I had no idea at the time, he seemed perfectly pleasant and friendly. I had no worries when he popped round for a drink with his friend, I was downstairs with them for much of the evening. It seems things took a turn for the worse once I'd gone to bed.

If I had known even a fraction of what I do now then I would never have let him in the house.

Dd is keen to report, but also scared of possible consequences.

OP posts:
TheVolturi · 25/09/2021 21:54

Your poor daughter, she has been so brave to get through this. I'd have to fucking kill the excuse for a man!

Pentagon1991 · 25/09/2021 22:30

Dear ‘Should I Try’

I am a SOIT officer for the Metropolitan Police. My job is as a single point of contact to victims of serious sexual violence, throughout the process of reporting to the Police.

I shall try and give as much information as I can.

Firstly, my sincere sympathy for the situation that you find yourself in. Supporting the parents of my victims have been some of the hardest moments of my career.

To answer the line ‘would the police be interested, or would they just shrug it off as something that can’t be proved’. Categorically, every single case of rape that is reported is taken seriously. It is no secret that the % of reported rapes that result in a conviction are frighteningly low, around 3%. But what I would say is that you cannot compare rape cases, they range from some of the most ghastly incidents that I don’t care to summarise, to complete fantasies made by people sadly suffering from ill mental health. All I can say, is that each case is investigated to the most it can be and each case is assessed by the CPS on its merits. To put it into perspective, for us to close a report, every closure is reviewed by our Detective Chief Inspector who has to agree the decision.

In regards to ‘should you try’ the answer is it’s not your decision. Please forgive me for being blunt, this incident will undoubtedly plague your thoughts and you want to do the right thing and solve the problem. Your daughter clearly trusts you, as she has shared this with you. She is looking for support, you can advise her, encourage her. But ultimately, you should make her know that you will support whatever decision she makes.

The process is a very personal one, it is also a very long one - you can be waiting over a year for a definitive answer. And at the end of that year, it may not be the news you are hoping for. It is therefore an individual choice for each person as to how they want to proceed. What I say to each and every victim I work with, is that I do not know how I myself would respond being in that position, as I have never been in that position and I am not arrogant enough to say that I know how I would respond. It is not a matter of being strong enough, or doing the right thing - my question would be, would your daughter feel better by going through the process. The process is a long, intrusive but as respectful one as possible. It can bring victims closure, but in other cases it can aggravate depression or anxiety. I also say, that if the investigation is successful, we convict bad person for rape and he gets 20 years, fantastic. But if the victim is a shell of their former self and is quite frankly not ‘okay’, then that is not a success. Your daughter’s support network starts with you, but there is support available from ‘The Haven’s’ in London or from the SARC’s outside of London. (I don’t know what the equivalent would be called outside of the UK) This support is healthcare led, and is independent from a police investigation. Though we do work in partnership with them.

The process / (Metropolitan Police)

  1. Victim makes initial report. Usually over the phone or in a Police Station.
  2. They will be contacted by Response Team Officers, these officers will do the 4 W’s, they will ask: ‘What happened’, ‘who did it’, ‘where did it happen’, when did it happen’. These officers will create a crime report.
  3. The victim will be contacted by a SOIT officer, the SOIT will explain the process and will want to build a rapport with the victim as they are the single point of contact for that person for the rest of the process. The SOIT will speak to the victim and will be trying to gather as much information as possible, to lead the investigation.
  4. The SOIT will interview the victim in a respectful way. (Referred to as a Video Recorded Interview (VRI)Or Achieving Best Evidence (ABE). This is instead of ‘giving a statement’.
  5. The suspect will be interviewed, likely arrested, the suspects devices (phone) will normally be seized if relevant.
  6. A comparison of accounts will be made, lines of enquiry generated.
  7. Police will want to speak to the first complainant, (the first person the victim spoke to) and get a statement from them. As well as any other lines of enquiry that are necessary, this is entirely dependent on what the suspect says in interview. For example, the police might demand Uber records from Uber, if the suspect got an uber to the house. That would prove that the suspect was there, but if the suspect isn’t denying that it was him who was at the house, then that would be irrelevant.
  8. Having made every enquiry that can be conceived of, every witness spoken to, statements taken etc. The Police will usually submit it to the CPS for consideration. If the victim knows the suspect, then it’s likely that a victim phone download will be requested. This is to review messages shared between the two, as well as GPS data and other data that may be relevant, depending on the case.

The CPS will then look at whether it has a ‘reasonable chance of conviction’. If they decide that it does, then suspect will be charged, if they don’t - the case will be closed. The important distinction here, is that it is not the police/cps saying that they don’t believe the victim, but rather that the evidence is not there to prove it.

If charged, the case would go to court.

Your daughter’s circumstances

Due to the timeframe, there is no forensic evidence to prove that sex took place.

The fact that the friend not only was the first complainant but also witnesses the rape, ‘dragged him off’ is huge. This would make her a ‘significant witness’. So it’s no longer one word vs another’s, as you’ve got a witness. If you imagine that in most instances, there are not witnesses to rape - this is unusual. I would also want to know, what made the friend know that it wasn’t consensual. The friend’s clearly walked in and didn’t think, oh I’ll leave them alone- they’ve dragged them off. So whatever it was that made them know it was rape, is clearly a big part of that witnesses testimony.

I would guess by the fact the man visited the house, that there will be some message contact. These are all lines of enquiry.

I will not say ‘this would or would not result in a charge’, however as described - there are lines of enquiry present and some which are considerably stronger than most cases that I work on.

My final word of warning, your daughter’s credibility is the most important factor in this entire investigation. In order for an investigation to have a chance, the victim has to be flawless in their honesty and their integrity. What I mean by this, is if your daughter was also doing coke, they need to say so. If the defense can find a single embarrassing fact that the victim ‘didn’t mention’ then they can suggest ‘well what else is the victim lying about’. The Police are not going to care if the victim did a line (or 100) lines of coke before the assault, but they do need to know. I mean no offence to your daughter at all, I have no knowledge of what the circumstances were, but I try and explain the significance of integrity, and the weakness that an unrelated embarrassing emission can have.

I hope some of this is helpful. I cannot make the process better, but I can try and make it an informed process and help people make an informed decision.

Best wishes,

P

shoulditry · 26/09/2021 10:12

Pentagon - oh my goodness, thank you SO much, I'm so, so grateful that you've taken the time to write all of that, the information is greatly appreciated, more than I can say, it's so valuable.

There's no doubt that I will support dd 100% in whatever she decides she wants to do. This isn't about me, it's about her.

Yes, the friend witnessed the rape. I don't know exactly the circumstances, but she was there. Dd was 16 at the time and her friend was 15.

I've just put 2 and 2 together - she's struggled with her mental health for the last few years (culminating in a suicide attempt very recently which saw her in intensive care for 3 days) and it all seems to have started around the time of the rape. The GUILT I feel is indescribable, how could I have missed this????? How could I have left her on her own to deal with this for years and years??? There must have been signs that I missed.

I will point her in the direction of some victim support, and do everything I can to support her as well. I will also encourage her to be completely open and honest.

The other useful thing she can do is give the police the exact date. It was the Friday night before a big event that we attended on the Saturday.

Thank you again Pentagon. There's a lot to think about and it will be down to dd to process it and decide what she wants to do. I will post updates as and when, just in case you want to follow. The fear of reprisals is absolutely huge. This man is from a large network of known criminals, well, I say known criminals, things like drugs, theft and criminal damage, not murder or anything. But we live right next door to the pub that he's in all the time so we're in easy reach for any consequences from making the report.

OP posts:
Pentagon1991 · 26/09/2021 11:50

You are most very welcome.

In regards to 'you should have picked up on something'. You found out about it only when dd wanted you to know. Ultimately, dd didn't want you to know. Take strength from the choice remaining with her. Imagine that you had worked something out and you understandably asked her about it - by outing her secret, when she wasn't ready, it could have have a big impact on your relationship.

In regards to reprisals, there is a lot that the Police can do, just make sure that they are given as much information as possible in order to manage the risk.

I am not a MN regular, (referred to this post by Pentagon's Mother) - but am happy to answer any PM or tag on a similar subject. (I believe these have email notifications.) As I say to the people I work with, I cannot advise on outcomes, but I can at least explain process and ensure that people are empowered to make informed decisions.

ElizabethTudor · 26/09/2021 12:09

@Pentagon1991 - I think your post is one of the most useful / helpful I have EVER read on MN.
Good luck to you and your daughter @shoulditry, whatever she decides to do.

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