Son is struggling with apprenticeship

[TheChip]

He couldn't handle mainstream school, as he couldn't deal with the change in classes and the teachers changed so much they weren't able to understand or manage his needs. No diagnosis as he refused to engage, but suspect he is on the spectrum.

He went to a special needs school and he was fine. You'd not realise there were any issues.
Now he has started an apprenticeship and its not very structured, things aren't happening as they should be and he is quick to point this out.

He is coming home frustrated everyday and telling me about how he has complained again. I've tried explaining to him that he needs to just go with the flow etc. But he is really struggling to do this.
None of the other students like him because of his constant complaints to the tutor.

He was going to really try today to just go with the flow, but they were being sent home 2 hours early. Ds informed the tutor on the quiet that they were meant to be there until x time but because he has also annoyed the tutor with the constant complaints, tutor then went and announced ds complaint to the other students. 4 of which are now threatening to hit him.

My son is just trying to go by the rules, and do things properly. In a frustrating manner, I know. But I really feel for him. He has been really looking forward to this, and I'm really worried that he's not going to be able to manage it until the end.

Is there anything I can do to help make this easier for him, or is there any way he can get some kind of support within the apprenticeship?

Does he have an EHCP?
If so, would that help to supply a 'learning mentor' or whatever to help?

(Maybe also repost in SN Chat?)

Yes he had one when at school. It could help, I'm not sure. I think I'll call and speak to the main person behind the whole thing and see what's what.
Thank you, I will cross post it over there too.

Argh. I'm not an expert on this and I would agree about SN chat, also I hope

But I am more of a language specialist. I doubt he understands what 'going with the flow' actually means, from the story here. He's going to need more specifics.

Could you do a version of a social story? That there was a rule about how long the day was, and this is a rule that the teacher can change on the day?

The problem of course being is there are rules he needs to be able to stick to, such as what to do if the fire alarm goes (of course even then there is some flexibility in practice which is difficult to explain, but it's dangerous if he wants for the teacher to say).

Would his school give any transition support to him or the workplace?

Hi, OP

I've taught and supported young people with SEN for a long time. Yes, your son does sound as if he is on the AS and is struggling with the transition from school to college as he is not getting the same support

You need to speak to his course tutor and then enquire as to what support is available to those students with AEN.

Just to ask, how did he get to attend a special school without an official diagnosis?

Sorry op it's not clear, is the apprenticeship for SN teens?

Just saw your post, the college need that EHCP and any other documents related to his needs as soon as possible

I have worded it in so many different ways to try and help hom understand. He seems to grasp what I am saying, but when it comes down to things happening, and he's at the point of where he is trying to accept what is happening, it's obviously not as easy for him to manage. Which again, frustrates him.

A lot of work went into monitoring his behaviour and talking with me to gain a better understanding of his needs before they were able to get him access to a SEN school.

The apprenticeship is a normal apprenticeship. He is absolutely fine and no-one would suspect any issues at all with him, until rules aren't being followed, or things aren't happening the way they're supposed to happen.

Is there a good chance that when he's qualified he will be able to fix his own schedule and boundaries?

Would he be able to pull out sbd go back to school for another 2 years? A family friend (with a diagnosis) has just finished school and at 18 he is just so much more grown up - has started his first job - at 16 it was hard to imagine how he would cope.

If its a normal apprenticeship then he will have employment alongside and they are subject to legal provisions...something like equalities and disabilities act.

You are right, he does need to go with the flow, in that he is the apprentice not the manager, but they should help him understand that from within the organisation.

He probably has a point, and is technically right, but there's always give and take required in real life, especially covid affected real life!

He needs help if he is on the spectrum with coping strategies as he will have this sort of thing to contend with all of his working career.

When he qualifies, he should be fine. Its just going to be hard going for him to get there.

I have just spoken to him and mentioned calling the main person, but he really doesn't want me to. He worries that if they know he is struggling, that they will use it to kick him off the course.
Its not the work he struggles with, its the structure, or lack of it. The tutor isn't as on the ball as he would like, and it's a lot more relaxed than he was told it would be. I've tried explaining that he's only a few weeks in, and after a few months he is guaranteed to be doing far more than he currently is. He just needs to get to that point.

As for school, he wouldn't go back. He already has another job that he has had since he was 15 and he handles that fine. Even with random shift changes.

I suppose that is another big change for him. He can only do weekend work there now, and he hasn't had a shift for a while. He is there on Sunday, so that might boost his mood a bit.

Am amazed that your son got a place in a special needs school without a formal diagnosis.

Surely a diagnosis would help him and would unlock specialist help for him?

I'd be encouraging him to get a diagnosis, or this problem could carry on in every job he goes to, and then what will he do? If he has aSEN then allowances will have to be made for him under the Equality Act.

It seems odd that he's fine with changes in one job but not at his apprenticeship.

In his other job, the shift changes happen, but the job is always the same. He knows what to expect and what is expected of him.

This current place, nothing he has expected to happen has happened, and he doesn't feel he can do what he feels is expected of him because of it. If that makes sense.
Which is why it will be fine once he moves from the training to the job. Although there might be changes within jobs he is given, the expectations of his work will always remain the same. He will know what he is meant to be doing.

Right now, he is going to get training but not being trained at the level he was told he would be. He just needs patience, but that's where he is struggling. What is the hold up, and why aren't they just cracking on with it. Sitting there for 2 hours doing nothing is 2 hours of learning wasted. Others are fine with that because they're getting paid, where as he is there for a reason, not to just sit there iykwim. That's how he feels.

As for the diagnosis. I have tried encouraging him, and will continue to do so. But he fears that it will be used against him.

From some (fairly peripheral) connections with qualifications that are included as part of an apprenticeship, in my case Leadership and Management related, it does seem that there can be a much more relaxed structure to the training part.

For example, I have been used to setting fixed deadlines if I am working on more academic hand-ins, as they are tied to a marking schedule and to an extent have to fit into particular times of year if they run alongside an academic year. With the programmes that can enrol theoretically at any point and finish 2-3 years later if that time is needed, I've regularly had support for a kind of 'what deadline is reasonable for you' approach and this can be pulled around without much challenge - though it feels strange to me and is much more difficult to keep track of.

Can he get a reading list or some websites that will back up his area?
Would you be able to enquire about mentorship within the place he is working or studying? It can help a lot to be able to make use of things like that within the actual place of work, and I think it's something that should be conducive in the case of an apprenticeship - also, in our place, we would advocate approaching/finding your own. However - this may be raised a fair bit further into the programme.
whatworksgrowth.org/resources/mentoring/
Also, is there a way of contacting staff support? Sometimes this is through Occupational Health. It's probably worth recording anything that would cause some struggle or tension (although sometimes it doesn't actually lead to any adjustments unless you have a good idea what they could be; the general approach might be quite broad-brush).

I know you have no diagnosis, but I found this quite helpful - it may seem irritating if your 'back is up' already, but sometimes the workplace is the place that you get the strong round hole feeling, where you are seen as a square peg, not while within education: www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/employment/support-at-work/autistic-adults

I think you need to speak to them and explain he has additional needs. His behaviour will appear odd to them and they won’t understand why he behaves as he does. Letting out early on a Friday is a huge treat foe them all, but he didn’t understand that, so behaved as he did. The others also won’t understand why he is behaving as he is.

I think if he doesn’t wish you to do it, then ideally he needs to do it himself.

I have just spoken to him and mentioned calling the main person, but he really doesn't want me to. He worries that if they know he is struggling, that they will use it to kick him off the course.

Can you explain to him that when he repeatedly complains about rules not being followed he himself is letting them know that he is struggling, but with no explanation. Contacting them with an explanation should make his place on the apprenticeship more secure.

Thank you all. There is a lot of helpful advice here, and it has been helpful for me just talking about it.

That is a brilliant point about his complaining showing that he is struggling. I will word it similarly when I next have a chat with him about it.

I did try and call earlier on, but the person I need to speak to didn't answer so I left a voicemail asking for a call back. I think what I will do if and when she calls is have a chat with her about it, and explain that he doesn't really want it to be known.
The link a pp shared mentioned that it can be spoken about with whoever you choose and kept that way, so I'd imagine it would be kept even more quiet if it's not coming directly from ds?

That way they may even be able to put additional support in place if its required, without him even being aware that it is being arranged specifically for him.
Even if its just a mentor of sorts for him to vent his frustrations to. I think if he heard them say what I have been saying, it would feel more official for him so easier to accept.

Op how old is he please? Depending on how good this company is they may not wish to provide him with additional support, it’s not school. What type of apprenticeship is it?

As much as all companies should behave snd support, in reality many don’t. And if he’s already struggling and complaining often they may already be questioning his future. Plus part of work is also being able to fit into the culture.

I would say his concerns maybe valid that they will boot him, but to be honest it’s likely going to happen anyway, so speaking to them is advisable, but go cautiously when you do.

Have you looked at the Ambitious about Autism website?

They specialise in giving people w autism the skills to cope in the workplace

www.ambitiousaboutautism.org.uk/

My dd is very similar, follows rules to the letter so didn't cope with chaotic situations but thrived at good old McDonald's, everything is regimented and she was quickly promoted. There are asd friendly entry level jobs, you would be sometimes surprised about which are best though

But that is what concerns me, that they won't be able to offer additional support and decide its best if he leaves.

Ideally, he will push through these difficulties and learn how to manage them. Because they are things that will crop up time and time again throughout his life. Its just figuring out how to best help him navigate through them.

Do you think it would be wise to use the threats of him being hit as the main point of conversation and then just explain a bit about why he is how he is, without going in depth about his additional needs. Mention it more as a personality trait? That way I would be getting the message across, but not going against my sons wishes.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove identifying info]

Honestly, I think additional needs would be relevant in terms of the difference between being seen as just confrontational or non-conforming, or having difficulties for a reason. Him being very good at one 'product' of the experience won't be a ticket to success or a reason to overlook other things, unfortunately. The Equality Act and reasonable adjustments are the centre of the legal duty - but in practice there are not many workplaces that do this really well; if they do, it tends to be because workers on the spectrum are actually in the majority there, not a minority.

So certain traits fall within protected characteristics, but some you might think should do, don't and cannot be legally defended or challenged in workplace relationships.

This, for example. Apologies for the horrible slurs, but these specific ones were thought to be outside of protected characteristics despite sailing very close to features that are.
www.personneltoday.com/hr/fat-ginger-pikey-and-yoda-comments-did-not-amount-to-harassment-finds-eat/

Did he declare his SEN at sign up? He should have been offered support if so. If not, he can still declare his needs. He should also be approaching his first Review so he can state his concerns there.

In the meantime he could be doing independent study, writing a Reflective Account in his Learning Journal. If he works on an electronic portfolio, when he logs his class time make sure he knows to state that the class finished early or that the scheduled session didn’t happen. These will be audited.

I dont think he would have declared it to be honest. He hates the idea that he has additional needs.

Yes, I definitely think it would help for them to know so they can see he isn't just being awkward or "annoying" and that he does really struggle to contain himself.

I'll have a think over the weekend on how best to lead the conversation and hopefully she calls on Monday. If not, I'll call again on Tuesday. Until then, I'm going to have a few more talks with ds to see if we can come up with a possible solution for him.

I will ask him about whether they do much in learning journals though. He hasn't mentioned a review, but I will let him know about that being a possibility. It might make him feel better knowing that he can express his concerns like that. If he knows he has someone coming up that he can share his complaints with, it might help him hold back from complaining at the time. Doubtful lol, but possible!

Thanks again everyone