How much of a problem is anti Irish racism still in the UK today?

[Cybercubed]

I was born and raised in England to Irish parents. I moved back with my parents to Northern Ireland aged 14 where I lived since. I'm thinking about moving back to England for the first time as an adult, but just wondering about how much of an issue anti-Irish sentiment (if any) there is in the UK?

Growing up I experienced quite a lot of prejudice for my Irish background, although I don't take it too seriously because I know kids can be cruel at that age and if it wasn't my Irish background they would have picked on me for something else, but has left me feeling a bit paranoid/insecure of Irish background, even if I have an English accent.

I do see a a lot of anti Irish commentary online which worries me, disproportionately from some Scots online relating to the old firm, Rangers fans singing the famines over why dont you go home, which of course is very painful to hear from somebody in the Irish diaspora, and worries me how widespread those views are elsewhere in the UK. (I'm aware Celtic fans behaviour is often equally sectarian). I'm also aware Irish online often can appear anti British too at times.

I know this is going to sound offensive but sometimes I feel I wish I wasn't of Irish descent and that that my parents came from a country that didn't have such an ugly past with the UK like Sweden or something.

@elizabethdraper

As an Irish paramedic working in London, you better believe there is anti Irish sentiment all around

At least once a day someone refuse s to let me examine them

My mother experienced something like this when she worked at Radio Rentals when people would walk away from her when they heard her (Belfast) accent. Mind you this was in 1984 shortly after the Brighton Bombing, different times I guess. I'd like to think this would be a lot less likely to happen now.

NE Scotland here - friends and I were discussing the Orange parade in Glasgow at the weekend. It’s sickening that they still happen. Feeds the whole ‘Rangers Loyal’ crap.
Can’t say I have heard any anti-Irish sentiment locally here, but a lot of anti-Rangers sentiment .

@Quickchangeartiste

I know I'm in a small minority in this but I actually don't mind the marches. Don't get me wrong the OO is not an organisation I would ever join (not like they would want me anyway) but I know some people here in NI who are in bands and do it as a part of a social activity. Obviously when they start marching through contentious areas it becomes a problem.

I've attended 12th of July marches in Portrush, Belfast etc and I enjoyed it.

Ah well if you're on that side you will be fine. It's only Catholics they have an issue with.

I live in Norfolk. Was born mid 70s. Never ever heard an anti Irish comment even at the height of the troubles in the 80s. You'll be fine here.

@Grellbunt

I'm not from that side, my family is from a nationalist background. But my identity is complicated because I have an English accent as I was born and raised there so I'm perceived as "British" and because of that I get away with certain social situations where other people from catholic/nationalist backgrounds can't. I've attended Northern Ireland and Linfield matches at Windsor Park and haven't had any bother, but I don't tell people my background unless they know me well.

I moved to England in the mid-1990s and lived there until 2020, and I experienced a lot of anti-Irishness, everywhere from Oxbridge High Tables to random strangers at bus stops, ranging from micro-aggressions about accents, a presumption that I was one of twenty children, superstitious, alcoholic and feckless, to assumptions I was in the IRA. Far worse outside London, more likely to come from older white middle-and lower-middle-class people, generally racists for whom being Irish was akin to not being quite white. It got worse again after Brexit, and contributed to our decision to leave, after living in various parts of England for 25 years.

It is still very much around and since Brexit it has got worse, I think. Some of the stuff MPs were coming out with was appalling. DH is a football fan and has noted the anti-Irish chanting creeping back in at football matches and my kids have had IRA stuff said to them at school, all crap kids get from their parents, of course. Then there is the bantz, like the estate agent who said, "I forget, you Irish breed like rats," when I said a house he wanted to show me didn't have enough bedrooms. He seemed genuinely embarrassed when I pointed out I didn't appreciate being compared to vermin but who knows? There are some people that really do believe an outdated stereotype of Irish people and there are some who just want to feel superior to us. Dylan Moran has found it so common it features in his routine.

@AnotherFruitcake

Sorry to hear that. I do think its a generational thing between those under 50 and those over it who can recall the troubles, and when Irish immigrants came in big numbers in the 60s/70s doing all the crap jobs like Poles and Eastern Europeans have been recently. People old enough will remember that Fawlty Towers episode with the Irish builders which portrayed a lot of ugly stereotypes at the time.

I assume in places like Liverpool and the northwest generally anti Irish sentiment should be less, but I could be wrong about that.

I'm irish and lived in the UK for two years and had several comments made to me by customers in my work place. One asked me out right was I a terrorist and did I have a bomb behind the counter. On the flip side my English dp moved here to Ireland at the start of the summer and hasn't had one anti English comment aimed at him. People have been warm and welcoming , even helping him find work. My parents experienced anti Irish bs in the UK in the 80s as well , so it's sad to see that some people just haven't moved on.

I have a foot in both countries and was brought up between both and have heard far more anti-Irish talk in England than the other way round. You've only got to read some comments on MN over the years.

@chocolateorangeinhaler

I live in Norfolk. Was born mid 70s. Never ever heard an anti Irish comment even at the height of the troubles in the 80s. You'll be fine here.

That’s a silly statement. You’re not irish, so would be highly unlikely to hear anti-Irish sentiment, so do stop with the patronising ‘you’ll be fine’.

It's definitely not as bad as it was but I still think there is a lot of ignorance. Many seem to think catholics = pro IRA or that it was a religious war or have no idea that atrocities weren't just carried out by the IRA or what is was actually like in NI.

I don't think it's just the Troubles, I've heard comments like I won't use that Irish builder as he's probably dodgy etc

I live in a very white English area. Here the general assumption is that all Irish people/ people with an Irish accent are gypsies, and all gypsies are criminals. This sentiment will never change, because (quite understandably) no Irish people would want to live here.

@chocolateorangeinhaler

Appreciate that. I grew up in Ipswich and I was thinking about heading back to East Anglia specifically. Probably not Ipswich though to avoid all the clowns I grew up with. Despite people saying its isolated Norwich seems like a nice place to live, North Norfolk also seems like a good area, probably not great for young people though.

@CorrBlimeyGG

I live in a very white English area. Here the general assumption is that all Irish people/ people with an Irish accent are gypsies, and all gypsies are criminals. This sentiment will never change, because (quite understandably) no Irish people would want to live here.

Yes, I’d forgotten to say that. I’ve found that some English people conflate Irish people and Travellers, and then also conflate Travellers with My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, which some seem to view as a source of documentary information on ‘the Irish’.

Again, a small minority, but I have a lot of memories down the years of having what I thought was a perfectly nice conversation with someone at a christening or a bus stop, and for some grotesque stereotype of ‘the Irish’ to be thrown out by this apparently civilised individual.

I’m not sure it did get better, either. I thought Brexit, particularly discussions of the NI ‘backstop’, border arrangements, gave a kind of legitimacy to anti-Irish sentiments again.

I'm English born to Irish parents and it's definitely nothing like it used to be when they came over in the 60s/70s. However you do get the odd casually racist comment. I maybe hear something twice a year.

My dh is from Belfast but has lived in Scotland for longer than he was in NI now (left for uni, never went back).

He doesn't get any anti Irish sentiment apart from mild ribbing from the teenage dc about the way he says "shower" or "eighty eight". I get the same from them - they've all grown up in Glasgow where we've lived for 16 years now but I'm from the east coast and 'speak funny'.

We don't follow the football really (except not going out to Asda on old firm days!). I think we miss it because we're middle class. Sectarianism is much more of a problem in the schemes and other poorer areas.

Just asked dh, he says that actually at work he hears a lot about the Irish and Scots being kin, family, on the same side.

I can't speak for what it's like in England.

I grew up in NI then moved to SE England in mid 20's and lived there 15 years. I have a very Irish sounding name which people often commented on (fine) but some people made fun of it (usually twats!). I had one family refuse to let me assess their son as they said he wouldn't be able to understand my accent (they had waited 1 year to br assessed- their loss!).

I returned to NI a few years ago with my English dh and half English dc (with English accents). They have never experienced any anti-English sentiment. Where we live there's quite a few English parents at the school gates, so nothing unusual. Dh also works for a big company with English offices, they regularly have English colleagues visit and from what my dh says they all love visiting Belfast.

I'm English, have been living in Ireland for over 20 years and still have my English accent. I've experienced a bit of good natured teasing but absolutely no outright anti-English comments in all my years here.

On the other hand, Irish DH lived in England for 15 years and definitely experienced some anti-Irish comments.

It's very upsetting that you're having to consider anti Irish attitudes if you move back to the UK.

I've never noticed any, but then, I don't believe there is in my peer group and that's all most of us can relate to isn't it?

I have certainly encountered anti-eastern European attitudes many times in local acquaintances but not anti Irish. It was something of a brusque awakening to visit NI and encounter strong anti English attitudes on a night out but certainly gave me a lot to think about.

I wonder if you can look at an extended visit or renting for a few months so you can test the water?

I really hope this is a thing of the past but I'm sure pockets of it still exist and if peoe don't experience discrimination directly they don't necessarily realise its around :/

I can't speak for everyone but I would hope and expect you to be treated the same as anyone else.

I’ve been here 14 years & have had a couple of eyebrow raising comments, but that’s it. I live in a very international city though, so foreigners are pretty run of the mill. It would be exhausting to be racist!

More broadly though, I do find the ignorance and lack of interest in the history of the British occupation of and centuries of abuses in Ireland shocking. I have also yet to meet an English person who gives a shit about Northern Ireland, and while I am strongly in favour of reunification, I find this carelessness, as offensive to Unionists as to those who might also want reunification!

So no, I’ve almost never experienced anti Irish sentiment personally, but the broader sentiment (or lack thereof) leaves much to be desired.

That having been said, I quite like living here (food shortages, fuel crisis, pandemic and Brexit notwithstanding!

I lived there until 2010 and didn't have any anti-Irish comments after I sounded English (except for saying 'haitch' which lasted longer than the Irish accent did), even though I have an Irish surname. I have no idea whether the anti-Irish sentiment would have continued if I had kept my accent.

Its sad to feel ashamed of your accent to the extent of losing it completely after just a few years to the extent that people didn't know where you were from. I know Irish people in the UK who have retained their Irish accents after sixty years of living in the UK.

It wasn't intentional Dancingonmoonlight, it's just what happens when I move country, and my accent is back to Irish now anyway. It has benefits when learning a new language by immersion, I find it easy to pick up pronunciation and flow/pacing in the new language.