Tenants won’t move out…how does this work?

[SisforSarah]

Explain to me how this works please. Tenants moved in 2 years ago, it was a long let. The landlord served notice over 6 months ago. They can’t find anywhere else to rent or buy (they are in a particularly busy property hotspot) so are refusing to leave indefinitely, and apparently that’s legal. So the landlord can’t sell his property and benefit from the inflated prices, or move back into his house. How long can they stay there? I’m a bit dumbstruck at this? What would happen if the landlord needed the money from the house sale for something else? Would he be forced to remortgage? I am neither this tenant or landlord or a tenant or landlord of any other property.

@respecttheforum
What is your situation seeing as you have such obvious vitriol towards landlords, and seemingly anyone who has any money?

and by social housing I din't mean as it is now where you need to be on benefits and probably homeless

You don’t need to be on benefits to get a council house.

@MrsRobbieHart

I know technically you don't have to but certainly where I live you would have no chance of council housing if you're working. Unless it's changed recently it was a points system and due to the shortage of available properties you would never be anywhere near the top if working. I suppose if you're willing and able to wait years you might get something.

[quote mercimacherie]@respecttheforum
What is your situation seeing as you have such obvious vitriol towards landlords, and seemingly anyone who has any money? [/quote]
No vitriol about people with money at all, just how people choose to use it.

I do object to the view that people only need to work hard to be successful because it is fundamentally not true.

I do detest landlords though, partly after being a tenant for a long time and partly because I have a social conscience and can see how we are failing as a society.

@MrsRobbieHart

and by social housing I din't mean as it is now where you need to be on benefits and probably homeless

You don’t need to be on benefits to get a council house.

You don't HAVE to be anything no. Anyone can apply. But in most areas you need to be homeless and not working before you get anywhere near the top of the list

@respecttheforum

So how would you advise I use my money, that I have worked for? In the next couple of years I'll be mortgage free and will almost certainly be buying more property, probably a holiday home. With the current interest rates it's a better investment.

I see nothing morally wrong with this. I would never pay over the market value for a property so I don't see how I'm preventing anyone else from buying it, I'd make a fair offer the same as anyone else.

[quote mercimacherie]@respecttheforum

So how would you advise I use my money, that I have worked for? In the next couple of years I'll be mortgage free and will almost certainly be buying more property, probably a holiday home. With the current interest rates it's a better investment.

I see nothing morally wrong with this. I would never pay over the market value for a property so I don't see how I'm preventing anyone else from buying it, I'd make a fair offer the same as anyone else.

[/quote]
Look, we disagree. We have different values and ethics we live our lives by. If you're happy with your choices then crack on.
I don't agree with multiple property ownership and you do. Beyond that, I couldn't give a toss what you do with your money.

We aren't going to reach any consensus on this which is fine by me. I do hope things change in the future though.

I would never pay over the market value for a property so I don't see how I'm preventing anyone else from buying it, I'd make a fair offer the same as anyone else.

Property prices - particularly in holiday areas - have artificially increased beyond the earning power of local residents precisely because property investors and wealthier second home owners have pushed up the ‘market value’ by being able to offer more, and often as chain-free or cash buyers.

I’m sure you know this argument, it’s not new.

@NoSquirrels

*Property prices - particularly in holiday areas - have artificially increased beyond the earning power of local residents precisely because property investors and wealthier second home owners have pushed up the ‘market value’ by being able to offer more, and often as chain-free or cash buyers.

I’m sure you know this argument, it’s not new.*

I've already stated previously my views on this, but that is a different situation to landlords buying properties in non tourist areas.

I've already stated previously my views on this, but that is a different situation to landlords buying properties in non tourist areas

The same principle applies, it's simple economics.

@Journeyofthedragons

It's not quite the same. I'm not sure about other areas but in some of the Northumberland villages near me there is a shortage of properties anyway due to people living longer, so irrespective of the price younger locals are having to move out of the area.

This is obviously made worse by non locals buying holiday homes so in some villages rules have been put in place to prevent this happening, which I completely agree with. In most larger towns and cities this is not an issue.

[quote mercimacherie]@NoSquirrels

*Property prices - particularly in holiday areas - have artificially increased beyond the earning power of local residents precisely because property investors and wealthier second home owners have pushed up the ‘market value’ by being able to offer more, and often as chain-free or cash buyers.

I’m sure you know this argument, it’s not new.*

I've already stated previously my views on this, but that is a different situation to landlords buying properties in non tourist areas. [/quote]
You said you’d most likely be buying a holiday home next - didn’t seem irrelevant.

@NoSquirrels

Yes, we do want to buy a holiday home, most likely a doer upper or self build, primarily for our own use. It won't be in a hugely popular tourist location.

I'm always baffled by the landlord hatred on here, people wishing there were fewer landlords and then in the next breath complaining they can't find somewhere to rent. Maybe we were lucky with our landlords but they were all decent enough and it suited us to rent because we were moving for work. It allowed us to move to follow job opportunities. Is that the real issue? That people are tied to particular areas?

@DancesWithTortoises

LL needs to start eviction procedure ASAP. Unfortunately it isn't cheap but the only way to get the squatters out of his property.

Once eviction is granted LL doesn't need to wait but can apply to the high court which will be very quick. Again it costs but worth it, I guess, to get them out.

They are not squatters. The tenancy is still valid.

It is not hatred of landlords (yawn) it is expressing exasperation that such ill informed people become landlords. The tenants wouldn't be squatters either as mentioned above.

Perhaps read up on tenancy law before becoming a landlord. Tenants have rights and you're not "loaning" a property. It's is the tenant's home during the period of the tenancy (and beyond) if unable to find somewhere suitable and local authorities will advise tenants to stay put while eviction process is taken so as not to make themselves voluntarily homeless.

Also if your choice of investment involves people (tenants) then focusing your frustration when making a loss on that investment is misplaced. Perhaps get a bit frustrated at yourself for not understanding the downsides as well as the upsides of becoming a landlord.

Research some of the many other investment options - (might not like the returns, but that's the risk you're taking). Accept the losses/accept the gains. Don't complain. There is no sympathy when choice of invesment has downsides. ALL investments are risky and have downsides. (read small print - past returns in no way will predict future returns). It isn't jealousy (yawn) and it isn't hatred (yawn), it is in fact the inability of some people becoming landlords to understand how investments work and accepting risks and preparing by having enough spare cash to swallow the losses.

People that take things personally and see it as "hatred" really have no critical thinking skills sadly - investments are a personal risk you've taken and no idea why landlords look for sympathy when they lose some money (potentially a year's rent due to eviction process). It's call a loss and is part and parcel of trying to make a gain. Yes interest rates are low, boo hoo - do people come on bewailing the stock market when they make losses? Don't think so as there would no sympathy. It's your choice of investment: take the losses along with the gains - investments should be seen over the long term (potential losses are not a personal attack on you by the tenant) it is one of the risks to consider when becoming a landlord.

@Marmaladeagain

It is not hatred of landlords (yawn) it is expressing exasperation that such ill informed people become landlords. The tenants wouldn't be squatters either as mentioned above.

Perhaps read up on tenancy law before becoming a landlord. Tenants have rights and you're not "loaning" a property. It's is the tenant's home during the period of the tenancy (and beyond) if unable to find somewhere suitable and local authorities will advise tenants to stay put while eviction process is taken so as not to make themselves voluntarily homeless.

Also if your choice of investment involves people (tenants) then focusing your frustration when making a loss on that investment is misplaced. Perhaps get a bit frustrated at yourself for not understanding the downsides as well as the upsides of becoming a landlord.

Research some of the many other investment options - (might not like the returns, but that's the risk you're taking). Accept the losses/accept the gains. Don't complain. There is no sympathy when choice of invesment has downsides. ALL investments are risky and have downsides. (read small print - past returns in no way will predict future returns). It isn't jealousy (yawn) and it isn't hatred (yawn), it is in fact the inability of some people becoming landlords to understand how investments work and accepting risks and preparing by having enough spare cash to swallow the losses.

People that take things personally and see it as "hatred" really have no critical thinking skills sadly - investments are a personal risk you've taken and no idea why landlords look for sympathy when they lose some money (potentially a year's rent due to eviction process). It's call a loss and is part and parcel of trying to make a gain. Yes interest rates are low, boo hoo - do people come on bewailing the stock market when they make losses? Don't think so as there would no sympathy. It's your choice of investment: take the losses along with the gains - investments should be seen over the long term (potential losses are not a personal attack on you by the tenant) it is one of the risks to consider when becoming a landlord.

This.

It’s absolutely morally wrong for tenants not to adhere to the terms of their agreement.

Do you think there's anything morally wrong in a landlord not adhering to their agreement or indeed the law?

If you recognise there is, well, the courts won't grant a possession order to a landlord who's ignoring the tenancy agreement or the law. Which is the point of requiring a court hearing.

Like a PP mentioned, the Tories haven't changed this, and they're about as pro-landlord and pro-homeowner as any political party.

We still don't know if the Landlord has actually applied for a Possession Order yet @SisforSarah.

@safariboot

It’s absolutely morally wrong for tenants not to adhere to the terms of their agreement.

Do you think there's anything morally wrong in a landlord not adhering to their agreement or indeed the law?

If you recognise there is, well, the courts won't grant a possession order to a landlord who's ignoring the tenancy agreement or the law. Which is the point of requiring a court hearing.

Like a PP mentioned, the Tories haven't changed this, and they're about as pro-landlord and pro-homeowner as any political party.

Yep. I've been illegally evicted in the past.

Slept on friends sofas for months, eventually found somewhere else to rent in a slum in Streatham...

After a year my landlord tried to get me out on a s21 revenge eviction after I reported him for faking our gas safety cert, and the black mould etc...

First off he photoshopped (badly) a court letter for a hearing that didn't exist in the hope it would scare me out.

I eventually got a s21 which wasn't completed correctly, along with a genuine court date. I represented myself and it got thrown out due to the invalid s21.

He then tried again, and again didn't fill out the s21 properly, and accompanied it with a lot of threats and harassment from him, his friends and his contracted workers. He also faked my tenancy agreement to say I'd moved in threeonths earlier than I actually did, in an attempt to claim non existent rent arrears.
Again, thrown out of court.

By the third attempt, I'd managed to secure alternative accommodation in the upcoming weeks; the court was fine with that and just asked me to return my keys once I'd moved out, which I did.

He tried to retain my tenancy deposit; I challenged it and won.

Christ, he was a proper c*nt.

It’s absolutely morally wrong for tenants not to adhere to the terms of their agreement

It would be more morally wrong to make their own children homeless if they didn't have to. In a choice between housing ones family and being nice to a landlord who in all likelihood has already made a huge profit out of us, it's pretty simple.

It’s absolutely morally wrong for tenants not to adhere to the terms of their agreement

Doesn't come into it. Law is law and must be adhered to.

Serve a Possession Order and if they haven't left when that expires, apply to the court for a Bailiffs Warrant of Eviction.

At which point, local authority can rehouse them.

When a landlord takes on tenants its the risk they take. If risk averse them dont take on tenants.

It sucks that some tenants aren't decent people - that's the problem.

A LL lets a house to someone with good references who seem like decent people. A few years down the line LL needs the house back and these immoral people break the agreement.

The LL's revenge comes in the reference when a new potential LL asks for one.

The LL's revenge comes in the reference when a new potential LL asks for one

If a LL wants their tenant to move out why would they give them a bad reference, it would only hinder them.