Tenants won’t move out…how does this work?

[SisforSarah]

Explain to me how this works please. Tenants moved in 2 years ago, it was a long let. The landlord served notice over 6 months ago. They can’t find anywhere else to rent or buy (they are in a particularly busy property hotspot) so are refusing to leave indefinitely, and apparently that’s legal. So the landlord can’t sell his property and benefit from the inflated prices, or move back into his house. How long can they stay there? I’m a bit dumbstruck at this? What would happen if the landlord needed the money from the house sale for something else? Would he be forced to remortgage? I am neither this tenant or landlord or a tenant or landlord of any other property.

@LoislovesStewie

You do realise that having to go to court to get a tenant to move out is not standard procedure don't you? Or do you actually think that every tenant has the right to live somewhere indefinitely and have complete disregard for the Tenancy agreement they should have signed?

I carry out repairs, I ring my tenants and check when is suitable for them to have said repairs done. I've not increased their rent in 7 years (and they're paying less than I could get) so imo I'm a good landlord.

I would talk to them before issuing them with the standard notice, if for some reason I needed my house back, and would be as flexible as possible. If they then fucked me over by refusing to move out and forcing me into legal proceedings I'd be furious.

@NoSquirrels

Tbh I wouldn't really care why they were doing it (refusing to leave). At the end of the day they have signed a tenancy agreement and I'd hope they would stick to it.

I've had tenants give me less than the required notice period having not mentioned planning on moving out, and leave the house with pen all over the walls and iron marks in the carpet. It's annoying but I fully accept it's part of being a landlord and suck it up.

If I had tenants refusing to move out that would piss me off enough for me to stop renting property out and move into holiday lets.

Of course a tenant can continue to live in a property until the tenancy is ended by a PO. I fail to understand why you don't get that. Why do you think it's NOT standard procedure?

As an assured shorthold tenancy can continue indefinitely as a periodic tenancy after the 6-month period then what else would you do? Would you expect them to believe that after the 6 months they have no right to live in the property? The law is quite plain, all tenants are able to remain and await a PO, they are doing nothing illegal.

@respecttheforum

If people want to "settle in homes and feel secure" then they should buy their own house.

If there were no private landlords where would all the renters live? Even if the councils had enough council properties for the poorer families there will always be people who want to rent privately for various reasons.

It doesn’t really matter if you’d be ‘furious’ though - you have as much right to be furious as the tenant has to stay until you’ve jumped through the legal hoops.

I’ve been both tenant and landlord - often at the same time - for a huge chunk of my adult life. I’ve had fab tenants and truly despicable ones and ones in between. Similarly landlords have ranged the gamut. I’ve tried to be a fair landlord. But I don’t take stuff personally- it’s pointless.

We've had a Tory government for 11 years now and they haven't changed the law on residential tenancies, which is that a tenancy ends either by mutual agreement between the two parties or by a court. There is no legal obligation for people to make themselves homeless ahead of that.

Think about that: 11 years of the party of landlords in charge and even they accept that it is better to inconvenience property investors than to have people turned out onto the street without some formal oversight by the courts. And as the law is not new, obviously landlords knew what the risk was when they started their businesses and planned accordingly, right?

Not every land Lord is a super rich property owner. Lots of people rent out a single property and their margins are quite small.

Unfortunately tenants do make a career out of moving into a property abs not paying rent and then living in it rent free until they're evicted. Happened to someone I know. Poor kids is all I can say.

[quote mercimacherie]@respecttheforum

If people want to "settle in homes and feel secure" then they should buy their own house.

If there were no private landlords where would all the renters live? Even if the councils had enough council properties for the poorer families there will always be people who want to rent privately for various reasons. [/quote]
Are you fucking joking? 😄 Not everyone can afford to buy their own homes.

I don't think all the landlords want to know about my solution.

[quote mercimacherie]@respecttheforum

If people want to "settle in homes and feel secure" then they should buy their own house.

If there were no private landlords where would all the renters live? Even if the councils had enough council properties for the poorer families there will always be people who want to rent privately for various reasons. [/quote]
Because it's that easy right? To just obtain £40,000 for a deposit for a small flat in London? When you earn an average London salary? Because of housing demands created in part by LL buying more than they need to rent at ridiculous prices 😂 you are delusional, enjoy that fantasy

@respecttheforum Are you fucking joking? 😄 Not everyone can afford to buy their own homes.

A few posts up they say that not being afford to buy is your own fault! Lol some people

I was renting once, landlord assured me it was an investment for them and they wanted someone to stay for several years. After 3 months the neighbors who were friends of the landlord decided they didn't like having a single mum on the close renting (all older couples who owned) no bad behaviour on my part, I was just lowering the tone by my presence. They made up all sorts about me. LL decided to evict me.

Damn right I stayed there until I was evicted, 8 months later. It was my last chance at private rental and my only option from there was a council property. The council won't house you until you are officially evicted. So quite often that's why people need to stay put. I'd have loved to have left, living there was awful for my mental health. But did what I had to for my children.

So, give notice, section 21... then follow the process. Not everyone who won't leave is doing it to be a prick. The law exists for a reason.

Not every land Lord is a super rich property owner. Lots of people rent out a single property and their margins are quite small.

It doesn’t matter, though.

It doesn’t matter if you bought it whilst you were in the army and now you’re out you want to move in.

It doesn’t matter if you inherited it and now you want to sell up.

It doesn’t matter if you went to work abroad and now you’re returning home.

It doesn’t matter if you let out one tiny flat on a high mortgage with hardly any margin or you have a portfolio of luxury properties let out to high earners.

As soon as you use property as an asset and business, not as a primary residence - even if that’s only just covering your costs - you’re accepting the risks of your decision.

It fucking sucks if you didn’t know this might happen, don’t have a back-up plan and it’s going to lose you money rather than make you money/cover your costs.

But it also fucking sucks to be a tenant when your landlord gives notice so no one’s delighted.

Do your research and realise the pitfalls, that’s all there is to it.

@mercimacherie

Ffs *@LoislovesStewie* you are actually stupid. I will no longer respond to you.

No I am not stupid. I just understand landlord and tenant law.

I would absolutely love to see the forced sale of every second, third, fourth home.
Not for an overinflated price created by BTL etc but for the price paid or if there is a mortgage, enough to clear it.

No buy to lets, no holiday homes that sit there empty for most of the year and fuck Airbnb.

If, we get to the point where everyone is and adequately housed at a fair and controlled rent, then we can look at holiday accommodation. Again at a fair and controlled price so it's accessible for all and not just those who can afford to spunk a grand on a week in Cornwall.

It's about fucking time things changed. I'm absolutely pig sick of the way people are treated and sorting out this housing chaos is a really good step to making things fair.

@NoSquirrels

Not every land Lord is a super rich property owner. Lots of people rent out a single property and their margins are quite small.

It doesn’t matter, though.

It doesn’t matter if you bought it whilst you were in the army and now you’re out you want to move in.

It doesn’t matter if you inherited it and now you want to sell up.

It doesn’t matter if you went to work abroad and now you’re returning home.

It doesn’t matter if you let out one tiny flat on a high mortgage with hardly any margin or you have a portfolio of luxury properties let out to high earners.

As soon as you use property as an asset and business, not as a primary residence - even if that’s only just covering your costs - you’re accepting the risks of your decision.

It fucking sucks if you didn’t know this might happen, don’t have a back-up plan and it’s going to lose you money rather than make you money/cover your costs.

But it also fucking sucks to be a tenant when your landlord gives notice so no one’s delighted.

Do your research and realise the pitfalls, that’s all there is to it.

This. The accidental landlord thing is just bullshit excuses so you're not lumped in with the real baddies. Boo hoo.

It is not the LL issue if tenants can't find somewhere else to move to, or that they are not in a position to buy

Yes it is.

@respecttheforum

So if no second homes are allowed where will all the renters who still can't afford to buy due to not working, having huge debt or whatever live?

If there were no holiday lets how will people be able to go on holiday in the UK? There would not be enough hotels and not everyone wants to stay in a hotel. I've recently "spunked" £1000 to stay in a cottage for a week, it was lovely, the owner was lovely, it's my hard earned money so why should I not be able to spend it on a holiday with my family.

You do realise certain areas rely on tourism and whilst I agree there needs to be some control regards non locals buying up property in these areas there needs to be a balance.

[quote mercimacherie]@respecttheforum

So if no second homes are allowed where will all the renters who still can't afford to buy due to not working, having huge debt or whatever live?

If there were no holiday lets how will people be able to go on holiday in the UK? There would not be enough hotels and not everyone wants to stay in a hotel. I've recently "spunked" £1000 to stay in a cottage for a week, it was lovely, the owner was lovely, it's my hard earned money so why should I not be able to spend it on a holiday with my family.

You do realise certain areas rely on tourism and whilst I agree there needs to be some control regards non locals buying up property in these areas there needs to be a balance.

[/quote]
All 'surplus' property should be brought into public ownership. No-one should be allowed to own more than one property and that should be the one they live in.

I've already said that holiday rentals could be considered once everyone has adequate housing. It's a secondary issue and absolutely not a priority.

I'm fully aware of the tourism situation as I live in a seaside area decimated by second home owners.

Final point, you're in the hard earned cash brigade I see (although rental income isn't really earned is it). Do you think that people who can't afford multiple homes and expensive holiday lets don't work as hard as you? Should they try a bit harder do you think?

@MolyHolyGuacamole

I was being facetious. I know not everyone can afford to buy. I live up north had a job at 17 and bought at 20 when housing was cheap. I've been lucky. I have great sympathy for anyone working in an average paid job who lives in an expensive area, especially London.

However I don't agree that the current housing situation is the fault of private landlords. I blame the labour government who actively encouraged (or at least did nothing to prevent) huge house price rises between 2001 - 2005. My first property trebled in value in the space of 2 years, I paid 40k in 2000, valued at £125k in 2002. It's stayed at around that value give or take £20k ever since.

There needs to be more social housing, and not just on estates where no one wants to live. There also needs to be tougher legislation re problem tenants and bad private landlords.

[quote mercimacherie]@MolyHolyGuacamole

I was being facetious. I know not everyone can afford to buy. I live up north had a job at 17 and bought at 20 when housing was cheap. I've been lucky. I have great sympathy for anyone working in an average paid job who lives in an expensive area, especially London.

However I don't agree that the current housing situation is the fault of private landlords. I blame the labour government who actively encouraged (or at least did nothing to prevent) huge house price rises between 2001 - 2005. My first property trebled in value in the space of 2 years, I paid 40k in 2000, valued at £125k in 2002. It's stayed at around that value give or take £20k ever since.

There needs to be more social housing, and not just on estates where no one wants to live. There also needs to be tougher legislation re problem tenants and bad private landlords.

[/quote]
But there has to be an in between! We are not just divided into those who can afford to buy and those who need social housing. As a single person on an average salary I don’t qualify for either, not even a help to buy scheme.

And yes LL do play a significant part, prices rise when the demand exceeds the supply. Owning more than one home means there is less available in the housing market

And the government has a part to play in regulations. Even with a hefty deposit I wouldn’t get a mortgage big enough to be able to buy my own studio flat due to my single average income.

And moving out of London doesn’t help because the type of work that I do means I’d be earning a lot less outside of it, so still in a similar situation.

We need reasonable rent caps to be able to save for a deposit, and then a fair housing market when we are ready to buy.

@respecttheforum

As I've said I've worked from 17 and bought at 20, was skint for years paying my first mortgage whilst earning approx £12,000. I was lucky with the housing market and in marrying someone who had also worked and bought a property by 20. We have both always worked, not racked up unnecessary debt and been careful. We're comfortable but not wealthy.

I do think some people need to lose the sense of entitlement and take ownership of their situations. I know so many people who have to rent due to life choices they have made and so have no sympathy for them. I also know people who have to rent due to life events beyond their control and really feel for them.

[quote mercimacherie]@respecttheforum

As I've said I've worked from 17 and bought at 20, was skint for years paying my first mortgage whilst earning approx £12,000. I was lucky with the housing market and in marrying someone who had also worked and bought a property by 20. We have both always worked, not racked up unnecessary debt and been careful. We're comfortable but not wealthy.

I do think some people need to lose the sense of entitlement and take ownership of their situations. I know so many people who have to rent due to life choices they have made and so have no sympathy for them. I also know people who have to rent due to life events beyond their control and really feel for them.
[/quote]
Pretty much as I thought then.
Thanks.

What happens if it’s the landlord who ends up homeless because his tenants won’t move out?

The same as what would happen to the tenants if they are evicted and cant find anywhere.

Neither party is more deserving of a home than the other here. Wanting your home back, is just as valid as wanting to keep your home. They’re both trying to ensure they are housed.

@MolyHolyGuacamole

I agree with you mostly, and by social housing I din't mean as it is now where you need to be on benefits and probably homeless to even stand a chance of getting a property, and even then possibly end up in a shithole.

On every new build estate a % of those properties should have to be for social housing, not necessarily for the unemployed but at an affordable capped rent for working people. The councils could also buy other private properties in various areas, but there would need to be stricter legislation and punishments on problem tenants as no one in a house they are paying a mortgage for wants to have a series of bad tenants housed next door.

I suppose rents for private landlords could be capped at a % above whatever there monthly mortgage cost is (or would be at the market rate). I think there would then probably be a rental property shortage as that would not be desirable to landlords.