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Original poster

Am I being taken advantage of as a freelance?

36 replies

Lavenderpillow · 13/09/2021 12:37

I’ve been freelancing for a charitable organisation since the beginning of a year. I find the work really enjoyable and perfect for me, but I am paid minimum wage. I’ve applied for two permanent jobs there and not got them.
They’ve come back to me twice this year when they’re short staffed and asked me to fill in, which I’ve done and enjoyed but earnt bugger all for all my hard work.
They’ve now asked me again. Dh is concerned that they’re taking advantage because they know I’m keen and that the hard work I do doesn’t reflect in my pay at all. I have another job part time in a different field that I get paid a lot more for.
But I don’t want to shoot myself in the foot. Perhaps I could try and do this work elsewhere. I don’t know. WWYD?

OP posts:
QforCucumber · 13/09/2021 12:41

Surely if you are self employed you set your own rate? and they decide if to engage you or not?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/09/2021 12:42

I would tell them that you cannot afford to keep giving your time for free. You work for them you don't volunteer with them!

They can then make up their mind whether they value enough to pay you for those additional hours.

BIoodyStupidJohnson · 13/09/2021 12:49

Work out what you think would be an appropriate rate for that work and that company. Then tell them your rates have gone up and see what they say.

If they like you, and you're a proven quantity, they're very unlikely to see their arses on the basis of one debate about money.

Do you know what other freelancers, of a similar experience to you and doing similar work to you in the same sector, are getting paid?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Jobs
INeedNewShoes · 13/09/2021 12:51

Just set yourself a new minimum rate.

I've done this and now when a client wants me to work for peanuts I say that my policy is to not work for less than X amount per hour as it's not fair on other clients who are paying the going rate.

Please value your work; then others will follow suit.

Original poster
Lavenderpillow · 13/09/2021 12:56

It’s freelance writing work and they pay me £9 an hour. I know I could get a lot more if I manage to freelance elsewhere but I don’t know if anyone else would hire me! This is my first client.

OP posts:
TabbyStar · 13/09/2021 12:56

What feedback have they given about why you didn't get the permanent jobs? How does your rate compare to the salary for the jobs (given that you also have all sorts of extra costs as a freelancer and so it's not directly comparable)? What's your motivation for doing it, e.g. if it doesn't look likely you'll ever get a job with them, does it help you in any other way? Also agree with PP about setting your rate. I have a lower rate below which I won't work regardless of anything else.

simitra · 13/09/2021 12:57

The idea of an independent contractor/self employed person charging a higher rate is that they do not have the advantage of paid leave and sick pay or pensions. They have to take care of these things themselves. Therefore it is understood that self employed people charge more. These are points you need to make to the charity. There is an old saying in the bible that "the labourer is worth his hire". Charities are renowned for paying shit money but you still have bills to pay.

Clymene · 13/09/2021 12:59

Do you have any background in the kind of writing you're doing or did you decide this was an area you wanted to get into?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/09/2021 13:01

@Lavenderpillow

It’s freelance writing work and they pay me £9 an hour. I know I could get a lot more if I manage to freelance elsewhere but I don’t know if anyone else would hire me! This is my first client.
Who set that hourly rate?

It's not sustainable, is it? I am self employed and had to quickly learn not to undervalue myself. I may have 4 different price lists but the 'cheapest' one provides me with a good income, after costs. I don't take work if it would mean going below that lowest set of prices.

You seem to be giving your first and least lucrative client too high a priority. I get it, it's a charity, but they could afford to pay you properly, you've seen that in the adverts for the jobs you have applied for! Stop subisidising them to your own detriment.

Your DH see this more clearly than you do!

Original poster
Lavenderpillow · 13/09/2021 13:02

You make some good points @simitra. There is definitely an element of chucking work my way when they’re caught short of staff themselves yet it’s quite involved work with a lot of research and brain power involved!

My only motivation to keepgoing with them is the hope that it might lead to a proper job or more freelance work either with them or elsewhere.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lavenderpillow · 13/09/2021 13:03

I have a degree as a journalist but this has been the first job where I’ve actually been writing for pay. Was working in other fields before. I guess that’s why I don’t have the confidence to think I should turn down such a low wage and why I asked for your advice.

OP posts:
Stompythedinosaur · 13/09/2021 13:05

9/hour for a copywriter is absolutely nothing!

I think you are undervaluing yourself if you don't feel you are worth more than than.

FindYourPorpoise · 13/09/2021 13:05

Who set the £9 per hour in the first place, them or you?

If you have applied for jobs with them and been unsuccessful, I wouldn't be thinking about keeping them happy. They clearly either undervalue your skills or have just gotten used to getting them cheap.

NoSquirrels · 13/09/2021 13:06

£9 per hour is criminally low for a copywriting service.

You need to tell them you’re in demand elsewhere, but you love working for them and don’t want to turn down their work but in order to keep working with them you will need to renegotiate your rates. You’re happy to give them a significant discount as they are a charity, but from X date your rates will be increasing to Y per hour.

Marcee · 13/09/2021 13:09

I think you need to decide if you are happy or not.
If you state your minimum rate has increased but they refuse this, what would you do?

Wpuld you still be happy to work the low rate or ok to look elsewhere.

Part of it is the extra work.

Any time they give you extra work state - yes but for this work the rate will be...
The new work is at short notice, and is more of a disruption.

So from now on any extra work- the answer is, yes but only at this rate- due to the short notice etc
Then decide how you feel about increasing your rates and what you would do if they refuse to employ you due to this.

NoSquirrels · 13/09/2021 13:09

Sometimes you have to accept that a gig is good for getting started but is just a stepping stone to more better paid work.

Go out and look for more work similar to this charity. When you discuss rates do some research before agreeing to a per hour rate.

Original poster
Lavenderpillow · 13/09/2021 13:11

Ok I’m glad that everyone is in agreement that they’re paying me too little. The £9 per hour was set by them. I know they don’t have much budget but even their admin jobs get more pay than that.
I know I’m a good writer. I just don’t know how to start with trying to branch out!

OP posts:
anotherwinkywinkybumbum · 13/09/2021 13:18

They will never make you permanent while they can get your good work for such a low fee! You're undervaluing yourself and they know it. Flowers

TabbyStar · 13/09/2021 13:21

I pay my freelance VA £25 / hour, and that's not a high rate even for VAs.

There's a Freelance Heroes FB group, lots of advice and support there.

Neighneigh · 13/09/2021 13:21

I agree with @NoSquirrels - that's a very low rate and your client will be very aware of it! For reference I've just done a day's copywriting/proof reading work at £240 a day and I know for a fact the agency i did it for will have billed their client at least £100 an hour. It is very hard to know what your rates should be, mine is low for my experience level but I'd rather have £240 than nothing tbh.

In your situation I'd say you have been offered more work and your rate is going up to £15 an hour - that's still very low but the problem is you've started off low too so proportionally it's going to be a big jump. I'd be interested in what others think but I wouldn't recommend you say ok my rate is now £25/£30 an hour, it's too much of a leap.

For your other clients, make sure you use a higher rate! You're worth much more than £9 an hour.

ChequerBoard · 13/09/2021 13:24

@anotherwinkywinkybumbum

They will never make you permanent while they can get your good work for such a low fee! You're undervaluing yourself and they know it. Flowers

Exactly this. Why would they hire you and pay you a proper wage when they are already getting your services for minimum wage & sometimes for free?

Your work is obviously acceptable to them, so you have clearly demonstrated that you can deliver what they want.

Original poster
Lavenderpillow · 13/09/2021 13:24

@Neighneigh do you mind sharing with me how you built up to becoming freelance like that?

OP posts:
Neighneigh · 13/09/2021 13:28

@Lavenderpillow happy to - am just dashing out the door (dog walk!) but will do. Mind you, the way my career is going I'm not sure I'm good for advice but hey ho!!

SuperbOwls · 13/09/2021 13:32

@anotherwinkywinkybumbum

They will never make you permanent while they can get your good work for such a low fee! You're undervaluing yourself and they know it. Flowers
Absolutely this!

Also keep in mind that freelancers save them money in terms of NI contributions, pensions, etc etc so they really are taking the piss

ScribblingPixie · 13/09/2021 13:35

I agree with @neighneigh. I stopped freelance writing nearly 10 years ago but my minimum was £200 a day - and that's in a field with a lot of competition where people will write for practically nothing. There's no point pricing yourself out of this work but by pitching it as she has suggested it's not necessarily worth their while looking for someone else.

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