Year 2 School Staffing

[Dreamypuma]

Hi All,

I'm new here so apologies in advance for any breaches of etiquette.

I've just heard from my 6 year old daughter and another parent that her class is not being staffed by a teacher on Fridays, but two teaching assistants.

From what we can gather, this is not a one off, but likely to be the case every week.

Without undermining the value of teaching assistants, does this sound acceptable?

@New2ctc

PPA - planning, preparation & assessment time SLT - senior leadership team (usually HT headteacher, dht deputy headteacher or aht assistant headteacher plus KS coordinator (key stage) HLTA - higher level teaching assistant TA - teaching assistant

Thank you

Re the mix year - I wouldn't worry about this, assuming the school are used to working this way. My dc are in a small rural school with multiple years in a class (they've been in classes of up to four year groups together). It has worked out quite well as has given more flexibility to work with other dc of their level rather than basing this on age. They've never had a problem with keeping up with where they should be.

@EffYouSeeKaye

The (6 year old) pupils were advised that they would have ‘no qualified teacher’ on Fridays?

That sounds odd.

Sorry, for clarification. The pupils were advised that their teacher would be with them on Fridays, but the TA would. There was no reference to their regular teachers qualification.

Fridays don’t have to be play days just because they’re staffed by TA’s. I’m not surprised by the assumption that they might be though because parents clearly have no idea how much TA’s are expected to do nowadays.

I’m HLTA, I still have to deliver decent lessons and show that the children have learned something! My experience is normal for most TA’s.

We have a TA at my school who is a qualified teacher and TAs who are HLTAs but the children (& parents) won’t know what qualifications each person has. You really do need to ask the school if you are concerned.
As EefYouSeeKaye says, it’s odd that the children were told it using that wording.

Sorry I cross posted with you.

The work will have been planned by the teacher. The HLTA may well be a qualified teacher or a specialist eg an ex pro sports player or has an art degree depending on what they are teaching.

I'd be stunned if Fridays were allowed to be 'play days'! There is a ridiculous amount of curriculum to fit in - I wish we could squeeze more play in.
If the teacher has the good reputation that you say she/he has, it won't happen. Trust them to do their jobs - if the usual standards fall, then go in and share your concerns.

My DS's class had the same arrangement last year (Y1). It wasn't a problem because the TAs were totally capable of following the teaching plan. Several schools around here close at lunchtime on Friday, so I was just grateful DS's school didn't go for that option.

Not sure what the plan is this year, now I think about it.

@HamCob

If you are concerned then you should contact the school and talk to them about the arrangements they have put in place. I really wouldn't be relying on the word of 6 year olds. As previous posters have said, it is not unusual for a class to be staffed by teaching assistants. The planning and resources for the day are usually prepared by the class teacher.

It's all relatively new news to us. We'd already agreed to pick up with the head on Monday. Just trying to guage if this is normal practice in schools now, and if we are being alarmist.

The TA’s at our school are brilliant and more than capable of doing a day’s teaching of the syllabus. They really stepped up over the pandemic when bubbles needed covering due to teacher isolations etc (last July at the end of term we had six teachers pinged by the app who had to isolate for the last 2 weeks before the holidays).

@LizzieBet14

I'd be stunned if Fridays were allowed to be 'play days'! There is a ridiculous amount of curriculum to fit in - I wish we could squeeze more play in. If the teacher has the good reputation that you say she/he has, it won't happen. Trust them to do their jobs - if the usual standards fall, then go in and share your concerns.

Our school are having one dedicated fun day for Y2 this year, but it just means they’re not doing formal English or Maths on that day and will be covering the other areas of curriculum in more active ways. It’s because this cohort of children missed out on so much play-based and social learning through reception and Y1 due to Covid.

Quite common, my child had a TA for a day and a half a week at one point (teacher was part time plus had PPA time). In fact at one point TA had the class full time for a couple of weeks. A large proportion of the class parents had no idea she was a TA, and an even larger proportion had no idea she was actually a qualified teacher who just wanted to be employed as a TA so she had less responsibility. It was in no way “play day” and worked fine. In fact I preferred the TA to the class teacher. I guess school was very lucky to have her though.

Basically in an ideal world no it isn’t acceptable (and I do think it’s taking advantage of TAs) but financially it’s often necessary and it’s not necessarily a problem for your child. Wait and see.

It’s really common. My HLTA is more experience than and better than a lot of newly qualified teachers - she just doesn’t want the planning and prep responsibility of teaching.

They are often a significantly more appropriate choice than supply as they know the children, routines and curriculum.

The work will all be planned and prepped by the teacher and TAs are highly skilled. I’d have no problem with this.

(I’ve been teaching 15 years)

School budgets are so small now that in every primary school I know, PPA time is covered by a TA. If the teacher is an NQT they are entitled to 20% of their timetable as non-contact, so one full day. Alternatively it may be a teacher with additional responsibilities. Our Maths and English leads get an extra half day a week out of class alongside their half-day PPA time. This time is covered by HLTAs and is planned and resourced by the teachers. I miss the days of qualified teachers taking PPA time when I could just give them a couple of subjects to teach and the objectives and they would plan it themselves. I take less than my allocated PPA time now because I found planning and resourcing sessions for a TA to teach actually took longer than the time I was missing from my PPA time.

TAs and HLTAs are fabulous, and do an amazing job.

However, they are no allowed to cover PPA time on a long term basis, according to the agreed rules.
neu.org.uk/advice/cover-neu-guidance-teaching-and-support-staff-members-england-wales

So, they should not be timetabled to take a class every Friday afternoon all year. The reality is, many schools have to do this because budgets are extremely tight, as has been said.

I can't imagine that the whole day is a play day but sometimes Fridays do have fun activities like music and Golden Time (at our school). So if that's the case Friday would be a good day for TAs to be covering the class.

@WolfFleeceSpotter

TAs and HLTAs are fabulous, and do an amazing job.

However, they are no allowed to cover PPA time on a long term basis, according to the agreed rules.
neu.org.uk/advice/cover-neu-guidance-teaching-and-support-staff-members-england-wales

So, they should not be timetabled to take a class every Friday afternoon all year. The reality is, many schools have to do this because budgets are extremely tight, as has been said.

Unfortunately this is just advice from the NEU and not statutory guidance.

Many schools can and do use TAs to cover on a regular long term basis.

Many Teaching Assistants have been extensively trained and have been working in schools for years and years, studying in a specialist area and gaining resources, expertise and experience that Class Teachers only wish they had time for. Some Teachers are brand new, straight from university and ask more experienced TAs for advice throughout each working day.
I'm a Higher Level Teaching Assistant and have a degree and 20 years experience. I also have a Post Graduate Qualification in Education. I've a rich and broad knowledge of all of the curriculum and what each year group needs to know. I actually think there should be a different name for what we do- we are teaching, not just assisting.
In order to cover classes on a regular basis the TA should officially be TA3/4/ HLTA, so that might be worth checking.
I'd be concerned if it was a full day a week with two brand new TAs but that's unlikely.

Competent TAs who know the children well and are teaching lessons planned by the usual teacher can be (and usually are) a much better choice of cover than a supply teacher who doesn't know the various children's foibles, needs, behaviours, and abilities well.

Where I've seen a fifth day covered for a 0.8 teacher, PE has normally been timetabled for that day, as well as other areas that might not need quite so much careful ability tweaking and assessment.

And I've just spent most of my Saturday planning engaging and inspiring lessons which I could just not bother to do.

We had this a couple of years ago with DD2 in KS1. I did a lot of research and it's legal. Though the TA (unless qualified as a teacher) in this situation does not meet the legal definition of "a teacher".

Generally HLTAs know the school and children well, so it's not a terrible thing.

I have more of an issue with my year 6 DD having had an HLTA on a regular basis who didn't understand the maths she was "teaching". That isn't acceptable.

I did last Friday afternoon by myself as the teacher was doing his PPA. I've been a TA for ten days.

I’m a TA in Y2. I cover my class one full day a week whilst my class teacher (who is an Early Career Teacher) has a morning out for her non contact time and the afternoon for PPA (Planning).
Not entirely sure what you are worried about. We follow exactly the same plans/work that the class teacher does. The children don’t “play” all day, in fact in Y2 at our school they don’t play at all. Without sounding big headed I probably know the Y2 curriculum better than my class teacher as I’ve worked in the year group for 10 years so I’m perfectly able to deliver a day of lessons.

I'm an HLTA. I cover PPA for 2 different teachers 2 mornings a week.

1 morning in the class I'm usually in and 1 in the class I was in last year so familiar to the pupils.

Both mornings I do the cookery lesson and a handwriting lesson.
I'm trained specifically in a handwriting programme and deliver this.

Lots of hltas are degree educated, qualified in some kind of child development and sometimes are even ex teachers who have cut down hours due to family commitments (or because teaching is a bloody hard job with ever increasing demands and accountability).

I wouldn't be concerned about the set up.